Curse

dare49devil · May 23, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Oops, yes, that is my OTC bar.

Divineshadows · May 23, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubard

Divine Shadows, it seems too me that you don't have enough normal heals there, orison is the only one. I'd personally drop aegis for healing touch, and it looks alot better... even though you still only have 1 spammable heal.

That is the whole point of my bar within the scope of my team's build -- to avoid spammable heals and go for money instead. Let the other two monks (one healing, one prot) do the channeling spam and focus using the money spells at the right time. My guild has experimented with having a single smiter in our swing position within our balanced build and it is easy to fit Aegis onto a smiter's bar. When we do this, I usually drop Aegis and add Extinguish or Inspired hex and get a more efficient attribute spread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

I choose my skills depending on the teambuild.

I think this is the most important thing to keep in mind when designing any build for any team setting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

But Power Draining the Order of Pain in a Ranger Spike, and then infusing the now gimped spike... is awesome.

<3 Wheel.

Interrupting order of pain is what I always look to do against ranger spikes with my power drain until of course we have them completely on their back foot at which point I start looking to interrupt Heal Party or Aegis. With factions skills though, I consider Order of Apostosy even more dangerous than Order of Pain (if you are using an Aegis chain) so I look for this skill as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

Divineshadows, I won't quote your post cause of the space but your build looks interesting. However, it can cause some problems mainly because of 2 reasons. Drain enchantment requiers you to TAB through the enemies to find an echantent one, and power drain is an interupt. This draws the attention away from healing. After all, you have to wait for an enemy to cast a spell. That can be quite risky when your team is under heavy pressure.

Heal Party and Aegis are easy to cast without having your current selection on a party member. This makes it quite easy to keep my focus on the enemy to make use of drain enchantment and power drain. I only have to switch focus to a party member to cast healing seed, spellbreaker (on someone other than self), orison (on someone other than self but basically I try to avoid using this spell as much as possible), and infuse health (which I try very hard to avoid using against opponents which are not doing a pure spike build). I have two other monks on my team who are focused almost entirely on the party (though watching what the enemy is doing always helps you as a monk).

Of course using drain enchant and power drain is risky as a monk if you have weak links on your team. The build is more difficult to execute when you have weak links on your team simply because you will have less pressure on your opponent and they will have more pressure on you.

The build I use for SB/infuse is about trust in my teammates. Having trust in my two other monks to keep the party from not dying and protected so that I can invest my energy into as many heal party and aegis casts as possible at the appropriate times. Healing seed and spellbreaker combined can make it very difficult for the opposition to kill their focused target (which I have an easier time noticing since my focus is mostly on the enemy). Having trust in my offense to apply heavy pressure. I find that the better the whole team plays the better I can play (of course the better I play the better the team can play) and the more the game slows down. With the game slowing down, this means you have more time (or at least it feels this way) to make good decisions. Conversely, it means that your team is applying more pressure than the opposing team and they feel like they have less time to make good decisions. I see the PvP side of this game as a construct of time, space, and energy and the team that can work together to make better use of these resources ends up as the victor.

pah01 · May 24, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Yes People - It is a very very awesome Idea to have less health when facing a spike team. GG - Drop the blasted superior frigging rune.

Sam

Divineshadows · May 24, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Yes People - It is a very very awesome Idea to have less health when facing a spike team. GG - Drop the blasted superior frigging rune.

Sam

Having a minor rune goes without saying when you are playing against a spike team. A +60 health staff helps a lot too. Against teams that are not running a pure spike build, a superior rune is necessary in most builds if you are playing to win. It means more healing efficiency for monks, more damage for warriors, and more effective skills all around for other classes.

Players that want to have every edge in HA will use a PvE character that can freely armor swap between a minor rune and a superior rune of a given type along with several different equipment options. For GvG, you can accomplish the rune switch easily even for a PvP character. Roll the PvP character with a superior rune and buy a minor rune for the character's pack, then if you quickly recognize the opposing team as pure spike override the superior rune on your armor for that match. Following the match, you can re-roll the PvP character with a superior rune and buy a new minor rune for the next match.

dare49devil · May 25, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Interesting you run aegis on your bar. People usualy gape at me when I use HP *oh noes, but ur energy will drain!*

PM me Divine, I assume you have vent and would like to talk to you about some things. I will be on after 5pm on Friday.

Byron · May 25, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

There is a very interesting thread where these infuse issues are discussed, and I suggest anyone interested in monking give it a look: Factions skills and PvP Evolution

I once appreciated the value of garbage heals on an HA infuser, but my views have shifted. Small heals are an ineffective defense against most teams, and encourage healing when its not necessary. Copies of small heals aren't going to help the situation.

Why not spec more into Divine favor? This is what I'd run if I wanted to infuse:

11+1+3 divine favor
10+1 healing
10 inspiration

infuse health
healing touch
dwayna's kiss
heal other
heal party
spell breaker
inspired hex
channeling

With high DF, your small heals are going to be about the same, while extending the duration of spellbreaker. Heal other is much more useful, considering your WoH isn't going to nail all of the big heals when under pressure.

EDIT = typos

dare49devil · May 25, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Drop Inspired Hex,

Holy Veil is a MUST.

I usually do not take Touch or Kiss. Not needed really.

ayanaftw · May 25, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

drop touch bring orison. this is tombs there arent many splits.

rule #1 dont use infuse as ur main heal vs non spike teams ever!!!

lambda the great · May 26, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Sb/Infuse is like DRUGGSSS(Not that I know) this has gotten me 15 Fame TodaY!

(I know it's not much fame but I'm almost R1!)
Ty much d00d

Byron · May 26, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

That infuser which abuses orison is for best-scenario situations, where all three monks are up and capable. Heal other will keep others alive when the WoH can't, and healing touch will keep you alive when the other monks can't. As for the whole pre-veil vs. migraine deal - I see its merit, and it's not convincing, despite it being almost standard practice in HA. If your fellow monks and mesmers can't remove the migraine, then a pre-veil isn't going to be terribly effective anyway. The cool down on migraine is only 15 seconds, and a good mesmer will be able to interrupt heals despite the lack of migraine. Inspired hex is far more useful as e-management, especially since infusers won't be up in front abusing channeling.

And, for some reason, very few mesmers bother with diversion in HA. True shutdown is mostly avoided in HA for reasons beyond my understanding.

dare49devil · May 29, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Ah. Maybe you have shitty monks. When you prevail, you should be able to keep Migraine off you the whole match.

Prevail, take off the Migraine, then just pre-vail again.

Let them try to interrupt Heal Other. And channeling is the single energy management skill needed for tombs. Hence, usually each monk has Holy Veil. The WoH has inspired too.

Zui · May 29, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

3/4s casts are cake to inturupt....

lambda the great · May 29, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I'm almost Rank 2 already just from Sb/infuse Started the other week with this... thanks for the build again.

Ado · May 29, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambda the great

I'm almost Rank 2 already just from Sb/infuse Started the other week with this... thanks for the build again.

I'm happy you're enjoying it. And I hope that other players who started playing infuser enjoy it as well. It was 1 of the reasons why i wrote this guide.

Helll is for Heroes · May 29, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

i use divine intervention. It saves my ass when im being spiked.

Asprah · May 29, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I am ussually using :chanell,insp hex,sb,infuse,orison,kiss,hp,seed.
Inspired hex is enough bcs my guild ussually play with non-monk convert hex,and prot with convert or veil (woh has veil too).
If team isnt using extra convert then you should drop HP and take Veil instead. The problem with that is that your healing will be crap then (vs IWAY you will cry for an extra HP).
And if you choose only inspired you should keep SB on monk with convert whole the time when facing migrainers.
Healing touch is crap skill IMO,its just a waste of your slot. You can easily orison yourself after infuse (unless you have a retard woh that doesnt heal you after the infuse)...

Divineshadow,i noticed you dont have single remove hex in your build. Did you ever encounter hex team?-GG

yesitsrob · May 30, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

When I infuse I tend to run

16 healing
6 inspiration
12 divine favor

infuse
orison
dwayna's kiss
healing seed
holy veil
inspired hex
chanelling
spellbreaker
_

the typical tombs SB Infuser is such a bad build though in general... you HAVE to take Spellbreaker for the ghost, and you HAVE to take Seed for the ghost.

I wonder though, with the likes of Ward of Stability around if dropping SB in favor of a more useful skill for your team would be an option

On Veil vs Inspired... if I'm stuck with crappy 1 second cast time skills on my bar (which as a tombs monk I am) then I would never enter not pre-veiled because scrubby HA migraine mesmers will be significantly better than my monk. I tend to take both

With all the tombs clusters and complete lack of lines in tombs for the most of it anyway, when has channeling not been good enough energy management >_>

Schorny · May 30, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Heal other will keep others alive when the WoH can't, and healing touch will keep you alive when the other monks can't.

I see the infuser in a totally different light:
he is just a normal heal monk, which carries a big heal if the situationen arises that your enemy spikes.

That's why I play an infuser exactly the same as I play a healer - because 90% of the time all I do is heal.

hardly any team is able to pressure you hard and spike. most spike teams in HA are vanilla 3-2-1 spikes. here I switch my superior healing out and grab my +60 health staff.

Quote:

As for the whole pre-veil vs. migraine deal - I see its merit, and it's not convincing, despite it being almost standard practice in HA. If your fellow monks and mesmers can't remove the migraine, then a pre-veil isn't going to be terribly effective anyway.

good teams don't need migraine, but most teams are bad. the problem is: a bad migraine mesmer that can keep migraine on you, will shut you down 100%.

to handle migraine without pre-veil, you will need 4 hex removes on somebody else but the 2 healers. this is awful lot. so some people carry convert on the prot. so the prot can remove migraine+conjure from one monk and that monk can remove migraine+conjure from the other monk... but this is fragile - _very_ fragile.

if you pre-veil, even the best migraine mesmer can't keep migraine on you and is forced to interrupt you without migraine.

that leads to 3 points:
1) you just shut down their elite
2) they can't shut you down effectivly (they got only limited interrupts and you will get a fastcast sometime so they will miss some interrupts)
3) you can use your convert for keeping your warrior spiteful free

just by pre-veiling you can eliminate 90% of migraine mesmers, because they suck and can't interrupt 1sec spells (sounds strange, but is true)

Quote:

The cool down on migraine is only 15 seconds, and a good mesmer will be able to interrupt heals despite the lack of migraine.

a good mesmer won't take migraine in the first place... so you know you are facing something strange when they run migraine.

the only thing migraine is good at, is shutting down bad monks. a bad monk is 100% shut downed by migraine and that's _very_ nice. normally you can't shutdown a monk 100%, but with migraine you can. a good monk can deal with pre-veils and eliminate your migraine - so why take it? take power block and you can shutdown the monk effectivly (or for factions: take mantra of recovery and power return).

Quote:

And, for some reason, very few mesmers bother with diversion in HA. True shutdown is mostly avoided in HA for reasons beyond my understanding.

It's simple: migraine is effectiv against bad teams. it's devastating.
diversion isn't. it's just an annoyance. it's an annoyance that, at the end, will let you win against an equal opponent - but 90% of all HA matches aren't against an enemy that is as good as you. depending on your skills - most enemies are much worse or much better than you. So diversion helps only in very few matches.

and a true shutdown mesmer requires skill. something that is not to be found in an average HA team...

Byron · May 30, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dare49devil

Prevail, take off the Migraine, then just pre-vail again.

Shatter, migraine, shatter , migraine. Running Migraine without an enchant removal or two is not something i think decent mesmers do.

Quote:

Let them try to interrupt Heal Other.

A better tactic(if possible) than relying on the mesmer's reactions(or lack of) would be to draw the mesmer back beyond his interrupt range. If the mesmer follows, your damage dealers should be able to punish it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

good teams don't need migraine, but most teams are bad. the problem is: a bad migraine mesmer that can keep migraine on you, will shut you down 100%

Unfortuntately so. Migraine is kind of like the Mesmer's Eviscerate - takes little skill to be used effectively.

Quote:

to handle migraine without pre-veil, you will need 4 hex removes on somebody else but the 2 healers

Assuming two migraine mesmers, i suppose so. But as said, veil is countered with enchant removal. You could cover veil with channeling - and that's what I would do in the situation, but it's unlikely most monks consider that. This is another reason why i prefer hex breaker - typical HA mesmers won't understand how to counter it.

Quote:

a good mesmer won't take migraine in the first place.

/agree 100%. There are far better ways to shutdown and/or punish enemy casters.

Zui · May 30, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

The real question is, have you ever seen a good mesmer in HA?