Curse

yukimura_gw · Aug 10, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

Kowolo's build has Energy Drain*. Alternatively, a boon prot can use Mantra of Recall* for the synergy with CoP.

KK, my build is the same exept that I use Mantra of Recall instead of
energy drain and Resurrection Signet instead of Ihex.

Expel Hexes could be used instead of Ihex in Kowolo build.

Or restore Condition.. hmm must try...

Now that i think of it, Rez Signet is useless if you heal
rightfully.

(ironic). I usually carry it to respect others
that carry it. Hmm... hard to get rid of it.

Cador · Aug 10, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Why not do a simple BL/Infuse or Prot your choice. gets rid of hexes and condiitions and heals for a considerable amot if it really bugs u set up wards or bring spirit bond to stop Bspike and Touchers

Easy

Edit: Did not see wastelands post sorry a tad tired.

Bkobe7 · Aug 11, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I love kinetic armor! I run a Mo/E using:

Orison of Healing
Mend Ailment
Vigorous Spirit
Dwaynas Kiss
Word of Healing
Holy Veil
Kinetic Armor (I run +60 Armor)
Res Signet

With the high probability of getting team mates who spam skills/attacks, vigorous spirit will provide them a way to self heal. Just spam it on everyone when no one needs immediate healing. It's a nice little bonus for yourself and for Dwaynas Kiss. The build is a bit weak on self healing so I guess you can sub in touch or breeze (*shudders*) somewhere. Nothing is more satisfying than tanking 2-3 warriors at the same time.

Manage your energy by avoiding overhealing/topping off health.

Thom · Aug 11, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

We need a "why healing sucks" thread.

Think the bottom line is that you can't find skills with the power and flexiblity of Reversal of Fortune, Prot Spirit/Spirit Bond and Guardian. Healing doesn't synergize well with DF since additive effects tend towards overheling. There are several healing skills that serve the same purpose in different circumstances: WoH, Orison and Dwaynas -- you really don't want to have all three, but you really can't afford to run only one of the three. Life restoration is only half the job of a monk, yet the primary focus of the healing line. Your normal heaing skills don't hold up well under pressure.

I am sure someone could do a skill by skill comparison, but generally speaking players should avoid the healing line.

Thom Bangalter · Aug 14, 2006, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

We need a "why healing sucks" thread.

qft.

Quote:

Kowolo's build has Energy Drain*. Alternatively, a boon prot can use Mantra of Recall* for the synergy with CoP.

um, they have poor synergy most of the time. Cop off boon, you lose it, and 10 energy from the cop, and have to reapply boon, and have to recast Mor.

It just happens that sometimes you HAVE to cop and can get some energy out of the deal.

chimpy11 · Aug 14, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Boon Prot, because it is the most efficient and self sustainable build going. Quite simply if you die in RA whilst running a boon prot either your team is hopeless or you need to get better.

QFT. The OP's build is just based on self-sustaining, if you have to go to such lengths as to take kinetic armor in RA to survive then you just need to improving your kiting and survivability.

Oh and btw, dont try this build in TA (think the OP mentioned untested), you'll just get slaughtered in a horrible mess of shatter + KD (that is of course if they even bother going for you instead of just putting Shame on you and laugh at you while your team-mates get slaughtered).

Arkantos · Aug 14, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukimura_gw

This is not what I see lately in RA. Reversal of Fortune is hopeless
VS Vampiric Touch and bite. Plus i'm trying to bring fresh air
to RA monks build.

But RoF is very helpful vs all the sins and warriors in RA. As a boon prot, theres nothing you can do against touchers. By simply using RoF your giving your ally an instant +xx health, which is better then nothing.

JR · Aug 14, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

But RoF is very helpful vs all the sins and warriors in RA. As a boon prot, theres nothing you can do against touchers. By simply using RoF your giving your ally an instane +xx health, which is better then nothing.

I am quite happy to face touchers; it is a hell of a lot nicer than having a competent Warrior put an axe in your face.

Arkantos · Aug 14, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I am quite happy to face touchers; it is a hell of a lot nicer than having a competent Warrior put an axe in your face.

/agreed. I'd rather have someone spam vamp bite/touch then eviscrate, executioners, penetrating anyday.

yukimura_gw · Aug 14, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I am quite happy to face touchers; it is a hell of a lot nicer than having a competent Warrior put an axe in your face.

Thats where Kinetic Armor is highly effective.
Less than half damages on all physical damages.

I beginning to think that Kinetic monk build in RA is effective
because nobody is expecting it.

As for TA, most monk build are slaughtered (maybe bad spelling),
Kinetic monk first.

dgb · Aug 14, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukimura_gw

Thats where Kinetic Armor is highly effective.
Less than half damages on all physical damages.

I beginning to think that Kinetic monk build in RA is effective
because nobody is expecting it.

As for TA, most monk build are slaughtered (maybe bad spelling),
Kinetic monk first.

Except for the fact that the 200 odd damage from Deepwound + Evisc bonus + Exe bonus is armour ignoring. Sure you might take the margins off the warrior, but even with kinetic armour I'd prefer to face a toucher.

yukimura_gw · Aug 14, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Except for the fact that the 200 odd damage from Deepwound + Evisc bonus + Exe bonus is armour ignoring. Sure you might take the margins off the warrior, but even with kinetic armour I'd prefer to face a toucher.

What is Exe bonus? Plus deepwound isn't a problem with mend ailment
and it can help me heal myself.

I'm not quite sure that damage bonus are armour ignoring. Hmm...
must test...

One thing is sure, I don't feel like it do 200 dmg at all.

EDIT : Eviscerate isn't spammable and doesn't do 200dmg on already deepwounded foes.
And I still think that +dmg bonus are physical thus applie vs kinetic armour.
.. but must test, not sure...

TheOneMephisto · Aug 14, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

All +damages are armor ignoring, it's already been tested.

yukimura_gw · Aug 14, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

All +damages are armor ignoring, it's already been tested.

KK understood, i'll sleep less stupid tonight.

Guess I'll have to write to A.Net.

eternal pho · Aug 14, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

People are just begging for 1 single dominant monk build, boon protection..

JR · Aug 14, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal pho

People are just begging for 1 single dominant monk build, boon protection..

Not really, that's just the way it is.

Red Locust · Aug 15, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

If you really want to play a kinetic armor monk/ele, at least use the glyph of renewal/divine spirit combo to spam heals and actually heal allies. I doubt you'd be able to keep anyone other than yourself alive for too long with 3 not-so-great heals and no energy management.

yukimura_gw · Aug 15, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

If you really want to play a kinetic armor monk/ele, at least use the glyph of renewal/divine spirit combo to spam heals and actually heal allies. I doubt you'd be able to keep anyone other than yourself alive for too long with 3 not-so-great heals and no energy management.

I play it and can keep up the healing. PaH is my energy management.
I can also play Boon protect and life bonder in RA but Kinetic monk
seems the easiest in RA lately. And I didn't "at least" needed
the Glyph of renewal/divine spirit combo to do so.

Remember, this is for RA only.

Sacho · Aug 15, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

See, it's not that people aren't looking for alternatives. There actually are. And the Randomness factor(capital R!) of RA, coupled with good pvp skills means you can get many wins running a subpar build.

That doesn't mean it won't be subpar to boonprot. Simply put, with enough expertise, boon prot has the highest statistical chance of surviving any punishment thrown at your team.

To give you my personal example. Before I even dared call myself a PVP novice, I sweared by healing. Protection seemed "meh" in pvp, divine boon took too much energy, and healing was just so cool - just stare at the red bars and select the appropriate skill to fill them.

That worked fine in PvE. The problem is, PvP is much, much different. Damage is hard to predict, often coming in various forms, all lethal to an unprepared monk.

All it takes is to review the main ways of causing critical damage to see why boonprots are so much superior to healing monks. Pressure, Shutdown and Spike are the names of the game, and boonprots are geared to handle each.

Under pressure, boonprots fall behind healing monks, however, this is where grossly mana efficient skills like Signet of Devotion are awesome. Also, pressure damage is usually highly mitigated by any support characters you may have on your team(hex removals, flashbots, melee shutdowns, etc).The minor advantage healing prayers have on constant damage is neglible, considering all the disadvantages on anything else.

Shutdown simply owns healing monks. Interrupts have ungodly efficiency considering their effects, and healing monks are prone to interruption(1s cast spells eww!). The awesome efficiency at which a boonprot can operate under e-denial beats healing monks by a loooooooong shot. Being able to hover around 5 energy due to item swapping is something boonrpots can(and should) abuse.

Hex/Condition removal is also a huge problem to healing prayers. The problem is two fold here - first, the lack of healing added to non boon/prot removal, and second the skill slots needed to accomodate it. While a boonprot can consider something like holy veil , or especially mend condition an added heal, healing monks can only use these skills for removal, which severely limits their skillbar.

Infuse Health is, in short, not enough to handle spikes. Inefficiency and no ability to preprot severely limit a healing monk's abilities to respond to spikes.

But there's more! Adding on to the Hex/Condition removal skill problem, casting times and recharge times on healing spells force you to take at least two heals to be any sort of effective. While boonprots enjoy the 2s recharge, 1/4 cast Imbalanced Fortune(Sorry, I mean Reversal of Fortune), AND also healing from their "hex/condition" removal spells, which provide more than enough spells to cycle as healing, healing monks must devote at least 4 spots to just hex-condition-heal1-heal2. Having one more slot free(at the very least) means more energy management spells for boonprots, which brings me to....

Energy management. Generally, to achieve good healing efficiency, a healing monk needs decent divine favor and healing prayers. This leaves much less room to branch out in other classes for energy management. Prot prayers still work wonders even at low levels, which leaves a boonprot with alot of points to spend on skills like Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain/Insert whatever your preferred energy management is here.

Another thing worth mentioning is the elite slot. While healing prayers RELY on an elite skill to give them good "efficiency" of healing, boonprots can use this elite slot for energy management, or whatever other purposes.

I'm sure I've missed plenty of reasons, but I hope this is a good start(it's late, spare me

)

Onto your build.
First, healing breeze is not more effective than other healing spells. Many players go into the mindset that degen needs to be countered by regen, however this is not the case. Healing Breeze in general means too slow a heal to be worth it. Also, it's an enchantment, and as such, can be stripped by quick-reacting mesmers, almost nullifying the heal.

This is again a problem of healing prayers, that the casting times limit your flexibility, practicaly forcing you to use healing breeze as you can't keep up healing pressure damage. You won't see such a problem with boonprots which usually go "Huzzah! ROF! KAPOW! MEND!" etc. all while you're still going "Ooooorisoooooon".

Healing touch is a so-so skill, its only saving grace being its high efficiency. However, using a skillslot just for self-healing sounds "meh", as usually damage mitigation is more efficient if you're under fire(ie, distortion or protection prayers), and if you're not, you could just heal up with something like orison. I understand that your build *needs* this spell as it would simply be decimated if you get focus fired with just orison to heal you - I just want to show the superiority of boonprot builds.

Heal Other is a BIG heal. I can't say much there - it's a choice between few spells on how to heal, and I find myself continously falling into the Touch-Other(hah) combo while trying to salvage something from the healing line.

Kinetic armor - why? In my opinion, this is a huge waste of attribute points for little benefit. Firstly, it will not phase assasins at all. Those tiny pointy sticks don't do the serious damage, it's the +damage from skills, and that ignores armor. You may be able to "tank" a warrior slamming at you for a while, however, you'll find out that adrenaline powered +damage quickly catches up to your healing capability if left unchecked. This is why people aim to disable warriors, instead of just stacking armor on themselves. Also, kinetic armor requires your constant attention to keep up. Enchantment removals will hurt you, and casting a healing breeze to "protect" it is so grossly energy inefficient, I don't want to comment it.

Peace and Harmony is again a poor quality skill. Even if you ignore the fact that it's an enchantment that can be removed, it only provides 1 pip of regen. Things like mantra of recall provide gobs more for only a small investment in your mesmer secondary. By the way, drain enchantment(non-elite) around level 9 provides the same energy gain.

Before ending my post, I'd like to say again, by no means am I saying that your build is useless. It's simply inefficient. Usually inefficiency will be covered up by the highly random factor in RA, the varying experience levels of players, and more and more factors. However, if you want to grow out of RA and participate in more organized PvP(And I'm not saying everyone wants to), your build's efficiency will play a much bigger role in your performance, and you will find healing builds simply lacking in efficiency, whereas the boonprot gives you a hardy and stable frame to work your experience on.

yukimura_gw · Aug 15, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Sacho your post is great. Kinetic Monk seems highly
inefficient and you resume it well why. But I will still
run it when I feel like running it because it give me
good result in RA and its easy to run.

I'm seeing a lot of healing skills hate lately and
beginning to understand why. (I left GW for 3
months, was it like that before?)

My usual monk build is boon protect monk but
always running the same build can be boring.
I tried Blessed light monk, its fun and a bit
more challenging.

I love Life Bonding but its the really inefficient
vs Ranger Touch. Is it the ends of Life Bonder?

As for 1 dominant monk build, seems like everyone
point to boon protect. Its great, but it is not original.
A build that nobody expect might be more efficient
because it wasn't expected... or could do the reverse..

Brain is tired, late here also... Good nite everyone