Curse

TheOneMephisto · Aug 15, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Well.. tournaments = money in GvG...

holden · Aug 15, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanego Ategeh

Please see above for an example of someone doing exactly that. They did it by putting forward a logical solution. Find it yourself.

i will. i'll dig long and hard. im anxious to read it.

Master Fuhon · Aug 15, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

It is difficult at times to not take losses personally with some of the horrid trash talk that goes on in RA. I mean there is trash talk in every form of PvP, but for players to trash talk in RA just blows my mind away.

I usually leave my corpse sitting there on the ground until the timer resets, but I haven't had the same experience with RA in particular. It happens everywhere competitively, but I was pointing to the way that some people can act when they find that their behavior is protected by the solidarity of a group.

Occasionally, the random arena guy spams the screen full of "U GUYS SUCK YOU STUPID NOOBS" and then immediately signs offline. Other guys maintain the rivalry across teams, despite the fact that they have others helping them. Heroes Ascent teams flaming random pickup groups of people (who are probably doing tombs for the first time) is an example of how much uglier the team behavior becomes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanego Ategeh

I'm not interested in someone else's idea of what my end goal of PvP should be, unless you want to pay me money for me to play. If that's the case you could start by buying me a copy or two of Nightfall.

Your posts are a quagmire. Do you also have the same goal of outrunning a man with crutches or defeating a corpse at a game of scrabble? Because technically, either of these are player-versus-player activities that would constitute a valid end goal. Would we also require forums to boast about this type of behavior, and not guides explaining how we can better ourselves by stepping up the level of competition?

Maybe you would at last be familiar with the concept of moral relativity. The "world of people" hinges on the idea that there is at least a semblance of moral right and wrong. I come from a world where able bodied people challenge themselves to higher goals in life beyond picking on the bottom feeders. You should admit whether or not you are as competent as you would make yourself out to be, and you shouldn't have to worry about people picking on your ideals anymore.

JR · Aug 15, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

-The mods don't do anything and this pointless discussion ends swiftly.

This forum is a learning tool. The more garbage there is, the harder it is to find the meaningfull posts.

yesitsrob · Aug 15, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

today, a monk told me frenzy was noob. So, obviously I added him to my ignore list and contemplated reporting him to anet, but didn't.... So yeah, random arenas, FUN.

I recently took an look at the alliance section of these pvp forum, can only wonder why they exist... it's full of posts like "KURZIX ROCK", and the whole luxon vs kurzick thing is a pve thing and has no place in the pvp forum imo.

I just don't think Random Arenas has a standard that is worth discussing to be honest. There probably are random arena builds which do reasonably well at being self sufficient and being able to kill, which are probably ideal for running there, Touch Rangers and VIM Warriors come to mind. But they surely aren't good _PVP_ builds... I personally think it's quite reasonable to not want to have to moderate and deal with sub-par builds that actually might work ok in RA. And if people do pay attention to bad builds and the place gets flooded with them then the pvp section will get a bad name for it.

I think we all see some of the poor builds that get posted even now, and I actually think it's good that they get shot down pretty fast, and it's normally with good reasoning too, from the mods and the actual people that tend to post here

moriz · Aug 15, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

i don't know about you guys, but i find RA to be very good for practice monk'ing. here's why:

1) kiting
every opponent warrior/thumper/assassin will be stuck on you like a leech. while some of them are downright awful, most can put up enough damage for you to worry about it. it is the perfect place to learn how to kite.

2) correct spell usage
that's where the gleave-frenzy-fastcast mesmers come in. they take damage, you try to heal them. the amount of damage they usually take is pretty similar to what you'll see against a spike. this is the perfect place to learn vital skills like which enchant to use (preprotting, anyone?), as well as increasing your finger reflexes with the quick healing that's required.

3) energy management
so you're team is sucking up your energy? that's good, because it forces you to juggle your remaining energy and use it to its maximum effect. it teaches you how to identify where to place your healing, and when, to get the most out of every energy spent.

4) familiarizing yourself with your build
down to its basics, monk'ing in pvp relies on good-old muscle memory and twitch reflexes. if you do it enough, your fingers will automatically press the right keys at the right time. RA is the perfect place to hardwire those muscle memory into you.

of course, the above can take place in many different places such as TA, HA, guesting GvG, or a team-organized practice. however, those things are often very hard to come by (almost nobody will want a novice monk as a guest for gvg, for example). you gotta start somewhere, and RA is probably the best place.

in short: is there a problem with RA? well, not really... you just gota turn off general chat.

holden · Aug 15, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i don't know about you guys, but i find RA to be very good for practice monk'ing.

i agree i can get some rust off and work on some things with a monk. but even then you have to have someone actually attack you....
sometimes i would just stand there and remove conditions wondering why i'm being left alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you just gota turn off general chat.

yes.

Ronin Rangerin · Aug 15, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

95% of the time in ra they will spam everything on the first thing that comes to them, namely the warrior.

Thom · Aug 15, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

The problem isn't exactly RA, it is creating strategies for the RA meta-game. Creating those types of strategies makes players worse at every other type of PvP. Therefore a forum designed to showcase these strategies would be harmful for this community, since it promotes well rounded pvp.

JR · Aug 16, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

1) kiting
every opponent warrior/thumper/assassin will be stuck on you like a leech. while some of them are downright awful, most can put up enough damage for you to worry about it. it is the perfect place to learn how to kite.

2) correct spell usage
that's where the gleave-frenzy-fastcast mesmers come in. they take damage, you try to heal them. the amount of damage they usually take is pretty similar to what you'll see against a spike. this is the perfect place to learn vital skills like which enchant to use (preprotting, anyone?), as well as increasing your finger reflexes with the quick healing that's required.

3) energy management
so you're team is sucking up your energy? that's good, because it forces you to juggle your remaining energy and use it to its maximum effect. it teaches you how to identify where to place your healing, and when, to get the most out of every energy spent.

4) familiarizing yourself with your build
down to its basics, monk'ing in pvp relies on good-old muscle memory and twitch reflexes. if you do it enough, your fingers will automatically press the right keys at the right time. RA is the perfect place to hardwire those muscle memory into you.

of course, the above can take place in many different places such as TA, HA, guesting GvG, or a team-organized practice. however, those things are often very hard to come by (almost nobody will want a novice monk as a guest for gvg, for example). you gotta start somewhere, and RA is probably the best place.

All of which are perfectly normal and general PvP idealogies. As such they can be discussed in the general Gladiators Arena section.

moriz · Aug 16, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

i know. all i'm saying is that RA is a good place to practice. i'm not suggesting RA getting its own section.

Abdul · Aug 16, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Imagine all the wonderful RA-centric topics: 'How to defeat Mending Wamos', 'The Advantages of Ressurection Signet' or '1,2,1,2,1,2,3 - Beginners guide to Touch Rangers'.

Hanego Ategeh · Aug 16, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Your posts are a quagmire. Do you also have the same goal of outrunning a man with crutches or defeating a corpse at a game of scrabble? Because technically, either of these are player-versus-player activities that would constitute a valid end goal. Would we also require forums to boast about this type of behavior, and not guides explaining how we can better ourselves by stepping up the level of competition?

Is there an area in the game called Scrabble? No?

Is there such a thing as a crutch in this game? No?

Is there such an area as Random Arenas in this game? Yes?

I'm done with this. Pretty disappointing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

-The mods don't do anything and this pointless discussion ends swiftly.

No one said this. This is actually a form of dishonesty, entirely aside from being unnecessarily rude and dismissive. I didn't phrase what I said well in one instance - and in fact, I was intending to edit it to make it less obnoxious - but I'm a contributor and you're a mod and this is still unacceptable. You're supposed to be the role model for discourse in this community. If this is an example of your moderation then you slept through some classes, and I'm not surprised you have a garbage problem.

I'm truly sorry that this board operates in this way. I hope you get better. For now, I guess I got the answer I was asking for, but it sucks. I think the contributors deserve better management, but I won't be around to see it happen.

Best,

Hanego.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 16, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanego Ategeh

No one said this. This is actually a form of dishonesty, entirely aside from being unnecessarily rude and dismissive. I didn't phrase what I said well in one instance - and in fact, I was intending to edit it to make it less obnoxious - but I'm a contributor and you're a mod and this is still unacceptable. You're supposed to be the role model for discourse in this community. If this is an example of your moderation then you slept through some classes, and I'm not surprised you have a garbage problem.

I'm truly sorry that this board operates in this way. I hope you get better. For now, I guess I got the answer I was asking for, but it sucks. I think the contributors deserve better management, but I won't be around to see it happen.

You know what bugs me? People who think that a 'discussion' is them arguing with about a dozen other people.

You asked why the moderators didn't think a subforum for RA is a good idea. They and many others have answered your question and given a definitive 'no.'

The mods on this forum are not paid. We do it on our own time because we want to help the community and prevent the forums from filling with crap. It's not our job to clog the forum arguing endlessly with someone after we've explained why something is the way it is. The point's been made, but you keep arguing it.

I was considering locking this thread if it went on too much longer, simply because its been reduced to everyone arguing the same points with a single poster. Not much good can result from that.

Mistical miss · Aug 16, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

I think locking this thread would be a bad thing, I have read the whole thread and found that there are a few posters, Hanego Ategeh mostly, keep responding, and dragging on new arguments (or made their previous arguments more clear and solid). I see nearly no offensive talk and the subject is completely valid, many people are involved, the subject is up to date, and there is reason to argue.

On the other hand you have a dozen of people who keep giving arguments amongst the line: "There is no teamplay in RA, Guildwars is a team game, There is too much flaming in RA, There are no real valid builds in RA because its Random" These lines fill up the pages quickly and have been said several times.

I myself vote in favor of an RA forum and with the same reasons as Hanego Ategeh, as he gave nearly every argument there is to give for the forum. As for the amounts of mods I have seen here post, they seem to be quiet limited. Maybe there is a forum moderator who would like to manage the RA forums, someone who wants to make this guildwarsguru available for all the guildwarsfans, including the RA fans.

Creating the forum isn't that much work, moderating it is. I know that atleast 2 moderators are not willing to moderate the RA forums, but one might. Have you moderators already discussed this amongst yourselves? It would make guildwarsguru complete, it is the only thing this forum lacks.

As for "Guildwars is a team game" RA is part of guildwars, if you think RA is not a teamgame (which it obviously is, you play it with a team) Then Guildwars is not only a team game, because RA is part of it.
Just as RA is part of Guildwars I think that the RA forums should be a part of the guildwarsguru forums.

Closing this thread is not a good thing. It's a heated but gentle discussion on a good subject. It is not a flaming war, nor a useless argument, because both sides give valid arguments.

I hope you moderators do the right thing and keep this thread open for discussion.

grayman222 · Aug 16, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

So I guess I better start playing TA. I never wanted to burden teams with me being new so I never moved up there(except on 14-15 round winning streaks)

around · Aug 16, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Let's look at what subforums we have on GWGuru:

-Team Arena
-GvG
-HA
-Alliance Battles

Now let's find what these things have in common:

-You can form your own team and have control over what strategies you use.
-These require some form of communication to play effectively in.

Now let's find what RA hasn't got in common with this:

-You are stuck with 3 other random people.
-You can win even without effective communiction.

RA is NOT proper PvP. You are stuck with three other random people and have no control over what strategies you use, who you're playing with, and the skill bars of anyone other than yourself, all things which are important in 'proper' PvP. You cannot learn anything, apart from maybe positioning and pre-kiting when playing monk.

JR · Aug 16, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanego Ategeh

I'm a contributor and you're a mod and this is still unacceptable. You're supposed to be the role model for discourse in this community. If this is an example of your moderation then you slept through some classes, and I'm not surprised you have a garbage problem.

I'm truly sorry that this board operates in this way. I hope you get better. For now, I guess I got the answer I was asking for, but it sucks. I think the contributors deserve better management, but I won't be around to see it happen.

I have been moderating forums on and off for seven years, please do not feel you are in a position to lecture me. Yes, my attitude is often abrasive and my nature blunt, but you will never catch me personally insulting someone. The simple fact is that nice people tend to get ignored. You made your suggestion, it was refused. Instead of turning around and saying "fair enough", you chose to be argumentative.

Let me give you some background. Six months ago the PvP section on Guru was severely lacking. And by that I mean that it wasn't just barely there, but that it was full to bust with misinformation and garbage. I then spent the following months up to now (with the assistance of a few others) turning it into what it is now. That involved quite a large task in making the posting community understand that trash would simply no longer be tolerated. There is a big difference in the attitude of PvE and PvP players, and this has to be reflected in the way in which the relavent sections are treated by moderators and admins. Luckily the Administration of Guru (namely Inde) were on the ball enough to notice this.

I'm not into self glorification, but I'm even less into people telling me how to do my job. Especially when they are suggesting something which goes against the entire ethos that helped to improve the forum, and it has come a long way. From somewhere that had posts that quite simply were stupid to the point of being offensive, to somewhere that you can actually have an intelligent discussion about the certain aspects of PvP. If you feel you could have done the job better, congratulations, but you didn't.

A Random Arena section adds absolutely nothing to the knowledge base of the forum, and just dilutes the strong content that is here already. As Squidget was talking about; the signal/noise ratio. It would also be hell to moderate, and quite simply attract posters that are quite simply clueless. The ideal situation is having a forum whereby you can have someone completely new to PvP come in, pick any thread to read, and learn something. Never will they read a thread and come out with the wrong idea, or a bad influence. That, sadly, is exactly what a Random Arena section would destroy. The more knowledgable amongst the posters here (for whom I am very much gratefull) spend a lot of time correcting people, explaining mechanics, describing why things do or not work. With Random Arena you can just throw all of that out of the window, why? Well because the random nature precludes any real kind of strategy, build planning, team work... There simply isn't enough left worth discussing to merit it having a section of it's own.

I wanted to keep this thread open, and I regret having to close it, but it is making me sad. When I'm sad I lock things.

-JR

(P.S: GWO has a brand spanking new Arena section, you might want to check that out for latest tips on how to handle the "RA metagame.")

(P.P.S: Sorry, I lied. I've wanted to close this thread since the topic was first brought up.)