Curse

fatboyslimerr · Aug 01, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I'm bored of playing balanced in TA these days. So this is an idea for a degen build.

http://gwshack.us/20c1a

Basically the idea is to spread degen in the form of disease from tainted flesh and rotting flesh, spread poison from apply poison, spread bleed from sever artery as well as degen from images of remorse. All are fairly spamable and so if they are removed, they can easily be reapplied.

Monking is fairly standard, with an option for additional party hex removal or self hex block. The necro has the job of removing hexes using inspired and revealed, and against any necro hexes these can obviously be used back at the enemy. Hundred blades is to try to spread poison to adjacent foes but if that doesn't work it could be replaced with quivering blade. The anti warrior mesmer spams ineptitude with spirit of failure to gain energy so they can repeat meaning enemy warriors are blinded and providing energy to mesmer. Also using ancestor's visage on allies to cut adrenaline and energy of attacking foes (works well against assassins). Mesmer also has draw condition to remove blinds from warrior and also to draw all diseases if tainted necro dies or tainted flesh gets diversioned.

This build will obviously require coordination and practice but I think it might work.

Any comments ?

Zui · Aug 01, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quickly:

For the warrior: I'm assuming he'll have energy-issues, probably even with a Zealous. He also has no snare, and no IAS. Rush and Final Thrust don't have very good synergy, either.

I'd honestly drop this guy, and just run a thumper with Apply Poison, here's an example of what I mean:

12 hammer
14 BM
7 wilderness
7 expertise

tigers, bash, crushing, irresistible, ferocious*, apply, charm, res sig

Pressure would be much better with this guy. Just the Pet DPS makes up for the lack of bleeding. Bring a poisonous recurve as your second set and spread poision with Tiger's Fury, works pretty well, and auto-cover of Deep Wound is ftw.

For the Ineptitude: I'd drop Ancestors for Conjure Phantasam. It's additional degen, and another cover hex is pretty nice, since Expel Hexes/Domination mesmers are fairly popular.

For the necro: Interesting build, think it will work, although I'd consider dropping Consume Corpse for somthing else, like a second Drain Enchantment, a Power Drain, or maybe even somthing like Faintheartedness if you're not too keen on the energy managment aspect of it. You just can't always count on corpses in TA, and against good teams you can have matches go 10 minutes or more without a single death.

For the monk: Looks fairly good, I'd run Mend Condition instead of Mend Ailment though, as against simmilar-styled teams that have alot of condition degen, mend condition is a life-saver. You already have someone to use Draw on you if you can't CoP off Deep Wound or somthing.

I'd also go with Guardian in TA, it can help with pressure, and can certainly help with fueling the Ineptitude Mesmer's energy supply. Plus it will even cause some descent damage if Price is allowed to stick as well.

The one thing that your build is missing, that's always good to have in TA is you have no real way to dominate Ressurection Signets. However, I don't see any great way to add that in.

fatboyslimerr · Aug 01, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I agree actually about the thumper since I discovered poisonous bite which imo is better than apply poison anyway. So replace the warrior with a thumper, also I think more enchant removal is needed so maybe lyssa's balance or inspired enchantment instead of consume corpse.

I know its totally a matter of opinion but I love mend ailment a lot. I couldn't not use it but I suppose its personal preference. Its got to be the extra heal the more conditions you have. Think about coming up against a trapper, someone walks over a trap and they have cripple, bleed, fire and possibly blind. Thats 48+70+4(48) = 310 heal

Again guardian is personal preference since I can perform perfectly well without it.

People underestimate ancestor's viage imo. Think about it, its not a hex so it isn't easily removed, its actually an enchantment on an ally and so is almost impossible for the enemy to work out quickly enough which ally its not to remove it. It then makes any foe hitting that ally and all foes adjacent (I think) lose 3 energy and all adrenaline. I agree phantasm is additional degen but I need enough warrior hate to last long enough to get all this degen off in the first place.

Thanks for the ideas, I might update it after testing some stuff.

sno · Aug 01, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Your build is very centered around anti-melee, but you're lacking any real way to pressure casters. If your opposition is melee-free, your entire mesmer is useless (except for draw, drain, and some weak degen) and you have no way to pressure the team at all. Sure, you can provide degen, but teams are designed to be able to handle that. Unless the opposition is melee-based, your team has no damage mitigation, allowing them to play the match exactly how they want, doing damage and shutting you down exactly as they designed.

Edit: I do like the amount of hex and condition removal though.

fatboyslimerr · Aug 03, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Given it a bit more thought and come up with version 2
http://gwshack.us/e17fc
EDIT: necro could take well of profane instead of deadly swarm or take gaze of contempt.

This build is kinda reliant on the wards for warrior hate as well as anti knockdown. This means that any Nukers or area damage would own it but I don't seem to remember coming against many of those except smiters. There's plentiful degen to be spread around by the tainted necro, as well as the apply poison ranger who will not only spread poison but try to interrupt any mend conditions or mend ailments that might be going on.
The mesmer is pure hex degen with a bit of warrior hate (from sof) as well as hex removal and hard res.

The basic idea then is to spam this degen to all enemies. This will usually go beyond the cap of degen ... -4 from disease -5 from phantasm, -4 from poison, -3 from PP, but this accounts for any removals of hexes or conditions.

Imo this is better than the first one, but can anyone think of any improvements ?

D E L E T E D · Aug 03, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

please never use taints or resurrect in ta or i will backhand you. I think you are trying to infuse many "musts" from ha into ta. Remember the matches are short and there is only 4 people to a team.

sno · Aug 03, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Agreed with Deleted, you really don't need corpse control, or hard res, or a ward of stability.

It seems like you're trying to pack too much utility and not enough offense into your build. Skills like Troll, Distortion, Hex breaker, all three wards, and Edrain (and the entire monk, obviously) are utility skills. They're severely cutting into what you can actually do to hurt the other team. In your last build you at least had moderate Warrior-hate, now your opposition is completely free to incapacitate and kill you in whatever way they want, and you can do nothing to stop them (except 2 interupts and wards, both easy enough to get around.)

Divineshadows · Aug 03, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

please never use taints or resurrect in ta or i will backhand you. I think you are trying to infuse many "musts" from ha into ta. Remember the matches are short and there is only 4 people to a team.

I think that tainted would be viable (maybe not optimal though) for TA on a N/Me using inspiration for energy management as long as the necro's bar also had warrior hate and the build as a whole was very condition heavy.

A fast cast hard rez is very rarely seen in TA. I'm not going to say it's out of the question, but I would prefer rez chant over ressurect on a Me/Mo for TA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

It seems like you're trying to pack too much utility and not enough offense into your build. Skills like Troll, Distortion, Hex breaker, all three wards, and Edrain (and the entire monk, obviously) are utility skills. They're severely cutting into what you can actually do to hurt the other team. In your last build you at least had moderate Warrior-hate, now your opposition is completely free to incapacitate and kill you in whatever way they want, and you can do nothing to stop them (except 2 interupts and wards, both easy enough to get around.)

Sno summed it up nicely. This build is not a threat to kill anything. It only has 3 hexes which are going to get removed, because so many teams run a lot of hex removal in TA. Spirit of Failure is the only warrior/ranger/sin hate and trust me it will get removed.

If you want degen for TA, then pick either degen conditions or degen hexes (preferably some with a nice shutdown side-effect) but trying to do both makes it even easier for your opponent's removal to keep pace.

fatboyslimerr · Aug 03, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Bah, its pretty tough to even please myself making a build. But I feel balanced builds don't have the endurance that a special build such as a degen build, might have (to get into the 30 wins or more). I only used a few hexes because I only need a few and they are spammable anyway, the majority of degen coming from the tainted necro and the apply poison ranger.

It might be nice if you guys could help me improve either one of these builds and post a link because I'm struggling now. My imaginative spark has gone for now

Another thing. I'm used to making builds for GvGs but TA is very different specially when it comes to designing a build that isn't balanced because of the short battle time.

Help me please

torquemada · Aug 09, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

This is what I came up with on a cue. Probably needs tweaking.

http://gwshack.us/c5436

Feats:

- W/R which uses sword and pet. Gash/sever to spread conditions which may not be enough, I'm thinking.
- Boon prot, not much to say there, I replaced copy of Inspired Hex because sesond Mo/Me carries it. Replaced it with Draw conds to be used with CoP.
- N/Me, which uses Parasitic Bonds and Conjure Phantasam for hex spamming. Uses Discord as elite which is spammable but relies on both hexes and conditions spread, thus highly conditional. Enchantments should be a-plenty on enemy monk though. I feel that condition spreading thru warrior may not be enough here, especially with Fragility included. Some warrior hate also included
- Mo/Me, having healing skills, primariliy infusing+healing touch combo and heal party, should help boonprot in trouble (which btw, has no guardian so infusing should help). His secondary role (or primary, hehe) is e-drain. Hex removal also included.

To sum it up, as requested, build is for degen and condition spread. Condition spread is limited to sever/gash, I'm afraid, and probably should need kind of a boost through necro weakness spread.

Hope it helps to gain some ideas for your build.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 10, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

This is what I came up with on a cue. Probably needs tweaking.

http://gwshack.us/c5436

Feats:

- W/R which uses sword and pet. Gash/sever to spread conditions which may not be enough, I'm thinking.
- Boon prot, not much to say there, I replaced copy of Inspired Hex because sesond Mo/Me carries it. Replaced it with Draw conds to be used with CoP.
- N/Me, which uses Parasitic Bonds and Conjure Phantasam for hex spamming. Uses Discord as elite which is spammable but relies on both hexes and conditions spread, thus highly conditional. Enchantments should be a-plenty on enemy monk though. I feel that condition spreading thru warrior may not be enough here, especially with Fragility included. Some warrior hate also included
- Mo/Me, having healing skills, primariliy infusing+healing touch combo and heal party, should help boonprot in trouble (which btw, has no guardian so infusing should help). His secondary role (or primary, hehe) is e-drain. Hex removal also included.

To sum it up, as requested, build is for degen and condition spread. Condition spread is limited to sever/gash, I'm afraid, and probably should need kind of a boost through necro weakness spread.

Hope it helps to gain some ideas for your build.

Yea, lotsa problems for this build.

Pet attacks without a pet FTW?

No caster hate.
The only warrior hate is going to be removed fast.
Bleeding and deep wound are going to be easy to remove.
Discord?
WTF is up with that second monk?

Here's something that I came up with on a semi-short notice. Focused on a condition degen, should be easy to overwhelm condition removal.

http://gwshack.us/be071

Basically a condition degen with quite a bit of interrupts. Two debilitating shots, lotsa easiley applied conditions, and quite a bit of condition-based warrior hate makes for a fun build.

Your finishing spike is basically limited to a dual shot on the melandrus and desecrate enchants, with maybe an attack or something from the cripshot.

Whirling defense on the melandrus and revealed hex on th necro can be subbed out, only subbing out revealed if you're not having problems dealing with hexes. Come to think of it, you could possibly sub out whirling defense for revealed hex on the melandrus.

EDIT: Yea, after thinking for a while, I've decided that dual debilitating shots in a TA build can be really deadly. Considering that each one can put a potential 3 pips of energy degen on a target, that's 6 pips of degen across the team. You can alternate on the monk to make them lose 10 energy every 5 sec (monking through that isn't fun), or use it as some more shutdown in combination with interrupts on another character.

torquemada · Aug 10, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Yea, lotsa problems for this build.

Pet attacks without a pet FTW?

Morning cofee FTW...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Yea, lotsa problems for this build.
No caster hate.
The only warrior hate is going to be removed fast.

1. Edrain and Power drain might not be enough, while Drain enchantment is conditional.
2. Very true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Bleeding and deep wound are going to be easy to remove.

Yep, true. Easier than reapplying them. So basically you are using an effort to apply something that's gonna be effortlessly removed.

What about second monk?

On final notes on this build, I agree, scrap it.

Divineshadows · Aug 10, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

What about second monk?

2 monks = no pressure on good opposition

Foppe · Aug 10, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Yea, lotsa problems for this build.

Pet attacks without a pet FTW?

No caster hate.
The only warrior hate is going to be removed fast.
Bleeding and deep wound are going to be easy to remove.
Discord?
WTF is up with that second monk?

Here's something that I came up with on a semi-short notice. Focused on a condition degen, should be easy to overwhelm condition removal.

http://gwshack.us/be071

Basically a condition degen with quite a bit of interrupts. Two debilitating shots, lotsa easiley applied conditions, and quite a bit of condition-based warrior hate makes for a fun build.

Your finishing spike is basically limited to a dual shot on the melandrus and desecrate enchants, with maybe an attack or something from the cripshot.

Whirling defense on the melandrus and revealed hex on th necro can be subbed out, only subbing out revealed if you're not having problems dealing with hexes. Come to think of it, you could possibly sub out whirling defense for revealed hex on the melandrus.

EDIT: Yea, after thinking for a while, I've decided that dual debilitating shots in a TA build can be really deadly. Considering that each one can put a potential 3 pips of energy degen on a target, that's 6 pips of degen across the team. You can alternate on the monk to make them lose 10 energy every 5 sec (monking through that isn't fun), or use it as some more shutdown in combination with interrupts on another character.

How do u want to keep ur rangers going, only 1 drain enchant is not enough to get a blindbot without energy quickly and there's no draw cond.

I really think ur boon needs PS, I'd say ditch insp hex for PS.

Divineshadows · Aug 10, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppe

How do u want to keep ur rangers going, only 1 drain enchant is not enough to get a blindbot without energy quickly and there's no draw cond.

I really think ur boon needs PS, I'd say ditch insp hex for PS.

While I would personally drop mend condition for draw conditions on the monk in this build suggested by Mephisto, this build does have enough hate for air eles with drain enchant and 2 copies of debilitating shot and 2 copies of distracting shot. If blinding flash does not get distracted, then the ele can be pummeled with debilitating shots in the windows of time when the rangers are not blind until they are out of energy.

Protective spirit is not really needed for TA as there are simply not enough large damage packets to merit its use for 12 energy.

Mephisto's build looks decent overall for condition based degen, but the melee hate seems a bit weak with just weakness and cripple. To give better melee hate, I would drop troll on the cripshot for blackout and troll on the melandru's for barbed trap. Also, the markmanship on the melandru's should be higher and you can get by with less expertise on a melandru's ranger along with using a superior rune of marksmanship. Even with all of the conditions, it lacks the best one of all...deep wound.

torquemada · Aug 11, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

2 monks = no pressure on good opposition

Depends. NMostly it's true, and having 2 monks in TA will get you "paranoia noob" title. Exception would be a monk with mostly utility/offensive skills and a bit of healing/cond/hex removal, ie. heal spamming elmo specced mostly in air as an offensive flashbot. In TA you have to walk the fine line of having just about enough of everything and not tipping the scales on neither offense or defense too much. Offense heavier (with holes in defense) builds might still work if you overwhelm your opponent quickly.

And sorry for digressing so much.

Foppe · Aug 11, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

While I would personally drop mend condition for draw conditions on the monk in this build suggested by Mephisto, this build does have enough hate for air eles with drain enchant and 2 copies of debilitating shot and 2 copies of distracting shot. If blinding flash does not get distracted, then the ele can be pummeled with debilitating shots in the windows of time when the rangers are not blind until they are out of energy.

Protective spirit is not really needed for TA as there are simply not enough large damage packets to merit its use for 12 energy.

Mephisto's build looks decent overall for condition based degen, but the melee hate seems a bit weak with just weakness and cripple. To give better melee hate, I would drop troll on the cripshot for blackout and troll on the melandru's for barbed trap. Also, the markmanship on the melandru's should be higher and you can get by with less expertise on a melandru's ranger along with using a superior rune of marksmanship. Even with all of the conditions, it lacks the best one of all...deep wound.

I think u'll get to some nasty suprises when ur not using PS.. What if the rangers are blinded all the time? Someone with draw cond can keep the team mostly free of bleeding and poison for quite some time when the rangers are so dependant on hitting..

TheOneMephisto · Aug 12, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Distract shot blinding flash, prodigy, air attunement, or ele attunement. Fairly easy to shut down eles. Keep in mind that this builds caster hate consists of interrupts and edenial.

I was thinking of putting a barbed trap on the cripshot and a blackout on the melandrus, but then i though, if the cripshot wants someone crippled why doesn't he just cripshot them. Also, I like the idea of 2 outa 3 non-monk characters having quite a bit of self-survivability, both having blocking stances and troll ungent. I mean, there's basically only two characters that you can effectively melee pressure or spike in this build, for both the rangers can just throw up a stance and troll. I personally think that crip and weakness should be plenty, for I've played 2 war 1 cripshot builds and been fine as long as you kite a lot. I mean, weakness is easily spammed and should get covered deep, same with crip. You might have a problem with a draw mesmer or something, but then you can just edenial and distract his emanagement, and he's shut down. Also, there's nothing funner than dshotting an eviscerate.

Yea, draw might be good on the boon, but I just personally never liked that. I'm sure that if you like playing with draw, you can throw it in. Actually, a BL monk might do better here, being able to bring BL and another for condition removal.

I have no clue about melandru's attibutes, as I've personally never played one and I have little experience using them in builds. IF you wanna suggest an attribute layout for me, I can modify the original post with it.

reaxzor · Aug 17, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

http://gwshack.us/be071
gonna try this today

fatboyslimerr · Aug 17, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaxzor

http://gwshack.us/be071
gonna try this today

Thats a nice build actually. I would probably change the tainted a bit though but I definitely wanna try this.