Curse

Mr Urthadar · Jul 28, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

My guild runs 3 warriors sword, axe and hammer. When we adrenal spike, is it better to have all 3 warriors spike or just two?

What is `standard procedure' for a 3 warrior adrenal spike?

Thanks!
ju

Da Deathblade · Jul 28, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Most adrenal spike builds consist of two warriors, not three. And they are usually axe and hammer. If I were you, I would use a sword warrior as more of a pressure character to stay on ritualists/monks and have constant pressure. And then theres an option of leaving the sword warrior completely out, and having something more useful. Three warriors is kind of overkill, since you really only need two if your playing balanced.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 28, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

IMHO, three-warrior spikes can be a very scary force. The thing to recognize is that you're capable of shutting down both monks during the spike through knockdown, and allowing you to get kill chains instead of single kills.

We ran a three-warrior spike for a while that looked like this...

Sword Warrior
-Galrath Slash
-Final Thrust
-Bull's Strike
-Shock
-"Charge!" {E}
-Frenzy
-Sprint
-Res Sig

Axe Warrior
-Eviscerate
-Executioners
-Bull's Strike
-Shock
-Healing Signet
-Frenzy
-Rush
-Res Sig

Hammer Warrior
-Earthshaker {E}
-Crushing Blow
-Shock
-Hammer Bash
-"To The Limit!"
-Frenzy
-Sprint/Rush
-Res Sig

Basically, your strategy is to build adrenaline on all three warriors and have the sword and axer spike one monk while keeping him down with shocks. Meanwhile, the hammer warrior spikes the other. Coordinate between the warriors so your knockdown chains don't even allow for 1/4s casts (this takes some practice.) As a result one monk is down for 6 seconds and the other can be down as much as 10, which almost ensures you'll get a kill.

The really nice thing about this kind of spike is that if you get it off properly it can lead to multiple kills. The monk the hammer warrior was on will be at about 1/2 health when the other monk dies, so your three warriors can almost certainly kill him while the first monk is being ressed. Then you can all switch back onto the first monk and probably have adrenaline to kill him before the second monk is ressed. Three warriors get kills incredibly quickly on solo monks, so if you can start a kill chain and the enemy isn't able to disrupt it you'll deplete their res sigs incredibly quickly.

Counters for this strategy include Distortion and AoE warrior hate like Blurred Vision and Deep Freeze.

zling · Jul 29, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

nice 3 warrior build but if you want to go for pure spiking and distruption in the meantime I dont think that you really need the sword warrior. heck, I'll even go with 3 backbreaker hammers to keep the monks knocked down all the time while the 3 warriors build up their adrenaline and than spike 1 of the 3 monks and quickly return to the 2 others to keep them knocked down. or if you gotta have eviscerate in there sub 1 or 2 of the hammer warriors into an axe warrior. if you have 2 axe warriors, both should focus on 1 monk to knock him down as much as possible while the hammer warrior knocks down another monk, if only 1 than it focuses on the 3rd monk(if any) or some other caster if there is no 3rd monk.

as for your build, is charge really the best elite you could come up with for the sword warrior? I'm sure you could fit some more useful elite, especially considering that you have sprint with you as well... and for the hammer warrior, why earthshaker? or was it a typo for backbreaker? if it wasnt than I think you should switch it to backbreaker...

Vindexus · Jul 29, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I personally love the idea of Hammer Warrior on one monk while the other two spike out their target. Backbreaker is really good for this, but I hate the adrenaline cost (obviously) so I'd probably run TTL on him. Then I'd run Sword with Charge! because that skill is funking ridonculous now. And of course Eviscerate because that's awesome too.

Ismoke · Jul 29, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

our sword guy

1.final thrust
2.galrath
3.bulls strike
4.frenzy
5.tigers
6.charge(E)
7.heal sig
8. rez

I agree charge is awesome for a sword warrior!!

Da Deathblade · Jul 29, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Three warriors is risky though...the guild your facing could have a lot of warrior shutdown. Might as well do a pressure build with thumpers, just my opinion.

Vindexus · Jul 29, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Deathblade

Three warriors is risky though...the guild your facing could have a lot of warrior shutdown. Might as well do a pressure build with thumpers, just my opinion.

All of the Warrior counters apply to Thumpers as well.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 29, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

nice 3 warrior build but if you want to go for pure spiking and distruption in the meantime I dont think that you really need the sword warrior. heck, I'll even go with 3 backbreaker hammers to keep the monks knocked down all the time while the 3 warriors build up their adrenaline and than spike 1 of the 3 monks and quickly return to the 2 others to keep them knocked down.

Three backbreaker guys can't 'keep' anything knocked down. All their knockdowns are adrenal and the high cost of Backbreaker prohibits them from knocking down very often at all.

If the enemy monks have halfway decent positioning, you can't knock down one and then go spike the other because by the time you get to the second the first will already be up. Plus you've probably used most of your adrenal attacks to get the first knockdown, so your spike will be ineffective.

Oh, and GvG has two monks, not three.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

as for your build, is charge really the best elite you could come up with for the sword warrior? I'm sure you could fit some more useful elite, especially considering that you have sprint with you as well...

Charge is an awesome skill and completely worth the elite slot, especially with the current buff to make it ward range. Three-warrior builds tend to be light on disruption and often have to split vs pure spike, which makes the ability to move around the map quickly an absolute must. Currently Charge will probably hit several warriors and allow you to move around with a 50% speed buff a good portion of the time. Your three monk comment makes me think you've mostly played in HA and I would agree that Charge is crappy there, but in GvG it's a strong skill and one of the best elites for a sword warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I personally love the idea of Hammer Warrior on one monk while the other two spike out their target. Backbreaker is really good for this, but I hate the adrenaline cost (obviously) so I'd probably run TTL on him. Then I'd run Sword with Charge! because that skill is funking ridonculous now. And of course Eviscerate because that's awesome too.

We found that Earthshaker worked a little better than Backbreaker. The lower cost combined with TTL means you can often use your combo twice before the sword warrior is completely charged for the next spike. Earthshaker is great for defensive play especially, since it allows you to knock the crap out of enemy warrior spikes. It's good either way though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ismoke

our sword guy

1.final thrust
2.galrath
3.bulls strike
4.frenzy
5.tigers
6.charge(E)
7.heal sig
8. rez

I agree charge is awesome for a sword warrior!!

Do you mean Tiger's Fury? Why would you run two IAS on a warrior like that when you can just run the much more useful Sprint or Rush?

JR · Jul 30, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Charge is an awesome skill and completely worth the elite slot, especially with the current buff to make it ward range.

I thought they only changed the wording of shouts, and didn't actually make any change to the area of effect?

Could be wrong though.

Vindexus · Jul 30, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Earshot is the aggro bubble. Charge, Watch Yourself and Shields Up now have aggro range, instead of Ward range. Warskull told me, so it must be true.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 30, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/

# Increased earshot range to the radius of the Danger Zone (the inner white circle on the mini-map radar).

That would be why, under the temporary skill changes.

JR · Jul 30, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Ah, seems I missed that.

Wow, must run more shouts...

Byron · Jul 31, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Deathblade

Three warriors is risky though...the guild your facing could have a lot of warrior shutdown.

I agree, you'd probably have a me/mo just about dedicated to keeping warriors clean. But, 3 clean warriors are a force to be reckoned with.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Sword Warrior
-Galrath Slash
-Final Thrust
-Bull's Strike
-Shock
-"Charge!" {E}
-Frenzy
-Sprint
-Res Sig

Axe Warrior
-Eviscerate
-Executioners
-Bull's Strike
-Shock
-Healing Signet
-Frenzy
-Rush
-Res Sig

Hammer Warrior
-Earthshaker {E}
-Crushing Blow
-Shock
-Hammer Bash
-"To The Limit!"
-Frenzy
-Sprint/Rush
-Res Sig

We ran this in a few GvG's a while ago and it works very well. Co-ordinated shocks work very well. I tried TTL on the warrior, but next time we try it I would replace it with healing signet, because of the the pressure it can take off the monks.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 31, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I think it really depends on which support characters you want to use. For the bulk of our time running that build we ran an Ele with Draw and an Expel mesmer at the flagstand, and had another Ele running the flag. With two Prodigy-powered Heal Parties we found that healing signet was largely a wasted slot, since all the incidental damage warriors take would get healed by HP anyway.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I think it really depends on which support characters you want to use. For the bulk of our time running that build we ran an Ele with Draw and an Expel mesmer at the flagstand, and had another Ele running the flag. With two Prodigy-powered Heal Parties we found that healing signet was largely a wasted slot, since all the incidental damage warriors take would get healed by HP anyway.

Our build was 1 hammer, 1 Axe, 1 sword, 1 Blinding Flash Emo, 1 Rit spammer, 2 Boon Prot, 1 Emo Flag runner.

It had a lot of defense and the 3 warriors were are most of the offense and we found it sufficent. But then you would say with that defence why not get TTL and spike more often, well we had a monk err7 in a match and were forced into a lot of splitting with the 3 warriors going off and killing as many NPC's as they could before VoD. We actually won that match too, but they were not the best we have played to be honest. No heal sig seemed to hurt our warrior's independence and that is why I would like it instead of TTL.

Neo-LD · Jul 31, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Those Sword Wars need deep wound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

When people first started running warriors to pressure other teams effectively it was common practice to only have one warrior who could apply a Deep Wound. Good teams recognized which warrior carried the Deep Wound and made sure to put extra emphesis on that warrior - make sure his target was always protted, that he got all the shutdown, etc. Effectively, the warrior with the Deep Wound was a threat to kill you, while the other one was not, he was just an assist. The obvious step was to put Deep Wound on every warrior, as that would make each one of them a threat to kill.

Warrior hate was a lot more primitive back then than it is now. If you were foolish enough to bring multiple warriors and only one Deep Wound now, a good team would recognize which warrior had it quickly and make sure he never got the adrenaline to use it. The only reason you might get away with it, is because you're an unknown team and your opponent would have to recognize on the fly that you couldn't Deep Wound. It's just kinda assumed that all the warriors have Deep Wound now because they're so awful on their own without it.

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 31, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

You can afford not having a deep-wound on a sword warrior when it's the 3rd one IMO.

Aug · Jul 31, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I wouldn't say a Warrior is awful without the ability to inflict Deep Wound. It's just that Deep Wound is so ridiculously good that you'd be crazy not to carry it.