Curse

Diva Signet · Jun 18, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

If one of their players glitch, should we do them a favor and kill that player?

No.

Here's why I wouldn't do them a favor:

1. The ladder only tracks win/loss. it doesn't track how you win, or how you lose, or what build you use, or if you had lag/e7 on your team. The only thing that matters is a win or a loss. So play to win, and take advantage of those opportunities as they arise.

2. We're not cheaters or players with bad ethics just because we don't kill their glitched player. We certainly didn't cause the glitch, and there is no standard code of ethics in guild wars that says: "if their player glitches, you should do what you can to assist the other team to unglitch him". Bringing in an individual sense of ethics in a team environment doesn't make work if those individual ethics contrast with the team.

Yes, it sucks for them that their players glitched. Similarly, it sucks if they have an e7. But it's not our job to counter anet's issues.

Not killing their player doesn't make you an asshole. What makes you a dick is if you attack him to about 10% health, then let him regen his health and ranking him in the face. Or if you talk smack and laugh at him for this glitch.

In a sports scenario: if a player from the other team is at a disadvantage in some way (something non-serious) - supposed a player on the other team loses his glasses, or his shoe, or limps with a rolled ankle - are you supposed to kick/throw the ball out of bounds to stop the clock and let the other team sub out? NO. You continue playing to your advantage. Yes, you feel bad for their player.

So no, don't kill the other team's player, ESPECIALLY when we're fighting back to win and it would be at our major advantage to have him stuck there. If we're rolling them and they glitch, then yeah, perhaps we can kill their player.

One of the people I play with on a regular basis said this, and it really bothers me. I agree - if we were just trying to win. But I'm more interested in preserving good sportsmanship and having good fun than I am about winning. So I'd like to get some other people's thoughts on this.

Rent · Jun 18, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Sportsmanship is overrated. If you've got the advantage, press it.

Sol_Vie · Jun 18, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I agree with you however it would be hard to let the other team know that "Hey we're just killing the glitched player so we won't attack you and you don't attack us." Given the chance I wouldn't take advantage of such a glitch, but it would be a pain to sort out with the other team.

Extreme Days · Jun 18, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

its personal opinion, your not obligated to kill that player that happens to be stuck, EvIL didnt do it to us when our monk is stuck, if your going to play to win, then you do everything ingame to give you that win. if someone glitches its not up to you to fix it and be a hero, its anets fault and problem.. however if you play for fun and do enjoy winning, but dont care all that much about rank/rating, then go ahead and unstuck the player. its all a matter of personal opinion, there is no right or wrong answer.. just ask yourself what your goal is in gvg

MrScaRy · Jun 18, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

if they are a new guild, "unglitch" them.. because they are a new guild and it would really dampen their gvg experience so it is only fair that they receive a decent gvg experience instead of constantly remembering their first gvg where they lost because they had a glitched guy.

if they are a more experienced guild, well.. they should know glitches and err7 happen all the time, they would have experienced before, you would have experienced before.. if they happen to have a glitched guy, too bad for them. if they are an experienced guild, they wouldn't be blaming you for their loss (if they do lose) but maybe just on their bad luck

Diva Signet · Jun 18, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

@ Sol: In this case, it was a lone sin that got stuck in the stairs in the Warrior Isle map - not an unheard of glitch.

We spawned with all 8 guys in our base...this player was stuck from killing our NPCs, and couldn't get out. There was no one anywhere near him but us, and it took me a total of 15 energy and 4 seconds to kill him. (he had some crazy DP I guess).

I understand if it's not tactically sound...don't go out of your way to kill a stuck player...but we were ALL right there, and none of his teammates were anywhere on that side of the map.

Navaros · Jun 18, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

The winning attitude involves playing to win via any legal means necessary and/or available.

Anet's responsbility to keep the game bug-free can not be shirked off onto the shoulders of players.

Vanquisher · Jun 18, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Generally I try to kill stuck players whenever possible, but it's naive to expect other teams to kill your stuck players. They're not obligated to in any way, though a lot of teams do see it as bad sportsmanship. At the end of the day, it's all about the ladder, and points, and many teams see it as such.

Would it be right to expect a low rank Guild to quit out because you have an error7 while beating them, only for them to beat you? Not really. You can always ask the question, but you can't expect them to do it - if they do, great. If they don't, get over it and move on.

Besides, you can usually get yourself killed by just taking armor swaps, a degen item (conditional damage mod of -1 health, with a vamp is nice), or if you're really lucky you can get stuck in range of a catapult that's prepped.

alchohol · Jun 18, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Sportsmanship is overrated. If you've got the advantage, press it.

Sorry, I disagree. On the contrary, I think we should return to fairplay and good sportsmanship.

If a monk is stuck release him. If your tactics requires you to keep the opposing teams player glitched in order to win, then your team doesn't deserve to win.

It's this lack of game etiquette and fairplay that destroys good competitive gameplay.

When people lose it because their desire to win is greater, they will resort to anything to gain an advantage...you know...anything goes. Just look at the state of the olympics for example.

Alathys Tylderaan · Jun 18, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Having been the victim of a few glitches myself, I've seen both ends of the specturm, the majority of teams will just run right past and ignore the unfortunate player, even if his team asks in local chat for the others to kill him.

Thankfully, in the mid-area of the ladder (150-500 kinda range), teams seem to be more friendly and sportsmanlike. Teams in the top flight are also usually forgiving in this kind of situation, but I've not had a match against any for a while.

The comment about the 'injured player', I'm not sure what sport you're commenting about, but I've seen plenty of football (soccer) matches where the opposing team will stop play for the injury.

Misc Merik · Jun 18, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Surprisingly I havent had any problems with players on either teams getting stuck during a gvg. Guess im just fortunate.

KamikazeChicken · Jun 18, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Expect sportsmanship and all-around good ethics from top 100 guilds, but those ethics start to go downhill fast as you get to 200 and below.

I <3 the people who believe the quote. Not only do people get screwed by anet by bugs, but they're then getting screwed by the other team. >.>

Tip: take a vamp weapon and 105 armor/-50 offhand to counter getting stuck, if the other team refuses to do you the favor of death.

Aarroe of Gilgamesh · Jun 18, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

it recently happened to us that a warrior from the opposing team got stuck in the stairs on our jade isle map. not soon after our warrior got stuck in a different set of stairs. our warrior just happened to have a vamp weapon in his inventory, so he was able to res portal out. i don't consider it bad sportsmanship to leave the opposing teams war alive. the other team did a pretty decent job of luring team members with aoe smite on them to their war, but we never pressed him to death. there is a conversation with gaile somewhere where them not addressing issues with bridges, stairs, ramps, and w/e was brought up. she said something like 'if everyone knows about this glitch it ceases to become a glitch and becomes a tactic'.

comparing this to a sports injury doesn't work because you cannot stop the game, as you can in real life. when we lose 2 people to err 7 it sucks to be us, but i would never expect the other team to say 'oh that sucks, two err 7s? what classes were they we'll have two of our players leave as well'. guild wars is it's own animal.

as someone else said bad sportsmanship is another thing entirely. that war that we left in the stairs said 'f* u guys' when we were about 3 seconds out from winning. this is bad sportsmanship.

someone else on his team apologized immediately afterwords. this is good sportsmanship.

Rent · Jun 18, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

Sorry, I disagree. On the contrary, I think we should return to fairplay and good sportsmanship.

If a monk is stuck release him. If your tactics requires you to keep the opposing teams player glitched in order to win, then your team doesn't deserve to win.

It's this lack of game etiquette and fairplay that destroys good competitive gameplay.

When people lose it because their desire to win is greater, they will resort to anything to gain an advantage...you know...anything goes. Just look at the state of the olympics for example.

Who are you to say who "deserves" to win? Why do you care about "etiquette" and "sportsmanship"? Are you offended when people take advantage of your glitched player to press their advantage and win?

If it DOES bother you, if you ARE offended, why should the other team--or anyone, really--care? Fragile feelings have nothing to do with playing the game and winning.

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 18, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

Expect sportsmanship and all-around good ethics from top 100 guilds, but those ethics start to go downhill fast as you get to 200 and below.

I <3 the people who believe the quote. Not only do people get screwed by anet by bugs, but they're then getting screwed by the other team. >.>

Tip: take a vamp weapon and 105 armor/-50 offhand to counter getting stuck, if the other team refuses to do you the favor of death.

To say that top-100 teams are all good sports and believe in fair play is quite frankly, naive.

There are poor sports in all areas of the ladder.

Until ANet fixes the growing amount of bugs and glitches in ladder play, you have to expect that you'll endure them, and that the other team won't "help" you. It's nice when it happens, but from my experience it's the exception, not the norm.

Stigmata Arta · Jun 18, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

It's a game, you play to win, who cares. If I was the leader of a rank 20 guild or something and one of their players glitched I would take advantage and try to win using that advantage.

Eviance · Jun 18, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

We had this happen, our monk was stuck in the column by the flag tower of Wizards Isle... Unfortunately his main heal was the touch one... Talk about wierd... Usually anything trying to hit him couldnt cause view obstruction, but we had to camp the flag hard and then he finally had a full disconnect. It was sad ;_;

What I find more disheartening than this is when you begin to beat a team and instead of fighting the losing battle they up and quit... This happened once and the poor monk stayed and she talked of how lame they were for doing that and appologised for them. We don't thrill in beating a badly built team and we certainly don't get thrills from beating up a lone monk. We stopped and talked to her a few mins and she was really cool, and I felt bad that she had guildies who didn't care enough about teamwork and sticking together to stay in it till the end.

Even in HoH if we see a team that has like 2-3people because everyone ditched we offer a 1v1 if they want it, usually they turn us down because they would rather rebuild (obviously). I think Sportsmanship is neglected by MANY teams and it's really sad, especially when you have a great leader with jerk members and you have to feel the need to say sorry for their behavior ;_;

There is no reason EVER to be a jerk when the other team is being friendly!

KamikazeChicken · Jun 18, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

To say that top-100 teams are all good sports and believe in fair play is quite frankly, naive.

From experience I can say you're more likely (Not all, but a lot. There's always exceptions to everything.) to get proper ethical responses from top 100 guilds. Lower guilds are more flakey in this respect.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jun 18, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Sportsmanship is overrated. If you've got the advantage, press it.

Yah, becuase we all know how important it is to get an extra 5-14 points on your GvG rating that is going to be reset anyway.

Don't you realise that when you take advantages like that it doesn't test you at all? Cheating is for lazy, skilless people. The GvG ladder is for testing your skills against players of equal calliber. Nobody but you cares if you are rank 230 (or, if you are fighting newer players, the guy fighting you).

The game gives no physical rewards at all. If you are just playing it to win, I have to say that is pretty sad, even for the standards of people who usually play to win.

Its a game, for fun. Don't be a soccer mom

Lando Griffen · Jun 18, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

I'd feel much better about winning through good tactics than by taking advantage of a glitch that the other team couldn't control. In war, yes a win is a win...this is a video game (I find that a lot of people don't seem to realize this, maybe fresh air and sunlight would do them some good). Anyway, call it what you want but you can't be proud about winning due to a glitch. It would seem that good sportsmanship is extremely underrated (If you don't believe that, take a trip to random arenas). The way I see it, why wouldn't you help?...unless you don't think your team has a chance of winning.