Curse

Drewfense · Aug 24, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

lol both to yesitsrob response (I agree) and I have never seen enchanting mods be part of an arguement on MoR vs EDrain... There is a reason you have 4 weapon slots... You should have a 20/20 recharge inspiration set to switch to anyways when you cast either.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 24, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

lol both to yesitsrob response (I agree) and I have never seen enchanting mods be part of an arguement on MoR vs EDrain... There is a reason you have 4 weapon slots... You should have a 20/20 recharge inspiration set to switch to anyways when you cast either.

That's one thing I've been forgetting to bring! Thanks mate, btw I saw your GvG against QQ last night. Quite impressive.

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Just returned from a 17 flawless victory in a round... (killed in the 19th by a high hex team).

Ill give u my build for this trip with my own "surprise". Pacifism. (Yeah, now u gotta say its useless and noob and all u want, but it wins some matches alone

, u need a nice team communication tough...).Give it a try, it wont dissapoint u, that i assure.

Att
Max divine favour.
9 inspiration.
rest on protection. (I have only two minor runes, one big vigor)

Reversal of fortune
Guardian
Mend condition
Pacifism
Contemplation of purity
Inspirated Hex (Not sure of the translation, removal hex with enrgy gaining)
Energy drain [Elite]
Divine Boon

Weapons.
Staff (fast recharge and cast protections +15 energy, i dont remember the other mod... think 5 armor).
second set with 20/20 inspiration.
3rd set with -5 energy for energy denial.

I think and mantain that signet of devotion is an awful call for Ta... yeah, sure u can use it for diverting diversion or something like that, but u can use any other spell for that. Its too slow, and if u need it for the actual healing u have a problem... a big big problem

. And chaneling is a complete waste... dont need to even discuss it.

On the Mantra vs Energy drain its simple... Mantra is better when u have no pressure at all. But Energy is simply best in difficult and close matches. and if u are resurrected with energy drain u can make a comeback and if u got mantra u are out.

Just my point of view

.

JR · Aug 30, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalfill0

Its too slow, and if u need it for the actual healing u have a problem... a big big problem

.

If you are waiting untill you are out of energy to use it, then you are wasting a skill slot by not using it anything near to it's full potential. It is a free 90~ point heal, with a fast recharge. If you are being subjected to energy denial it is priceless, and even when you are not it is very usefull to preserve what energy you do have.

And using it just to get it diverted is a terrible tactic, pretty sure nobody would ever reccomend that.

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Thats not a lot of healing JR. Its the same as mantra vs energy, You can think about it out of game, making it stadistic, and without pressure. But if You are under heavy pressure (Most of the time in TA if you are facing a good team) that 90 healing (It doesnt even trigger divine favour....) means nothing and the 2 sec cast can kill you. i would run any other thing before the signet. any other thing would do his work and heal the same.... if you really need more energy management that wouldnt do any difference..

Stadistic is not the whole thing...

(im not talking about GvG or HA because i dont know the enviroment pretty well, but i gess its used in GvG pretty often)

But its just my view as i said before

. (I have played with and without it... and simply i didnt find it useful

,).

The diversion thing was just an exageration....... i know its silly....

holden · Aug 30, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalfill0

Thats not a lot of healing JR. Its the same as mantra vs energy, You can think about it out of game, making it stadistic, and without pressure. But if You are under heavy pressure (Most of the time in TA if you are facing a good team) that 90 healing (It doesnt even trigger divine favour....) means nothing and the 2 sec cast can kill you. i would run any other thing before the signet. any other thing would do his work and heal the same.... if you really need more energy management that wouldnt do any difference..

at 15 divine, if you're running boon you should be at 15 at least, it heals for 100. even with the slow cast it's a free 100 point heal with a fast cooldown. JR's right, when you got some mesmer there being left alone to dismantle your energy pool it's a priceless skill to say the least.

when energy is better than gold and you only get 8 skills on your bar anything that heals for 100 and cost nothing but 2 seconds is a great skill. sig of devotion, like inspired hex, is energy management.

pacifism will cost you 10 with a 30 second cooldown. unless it's a heavy hex team and everyone is completely on the same page I can't see ever using it.

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Its not mesmers that worries me :/, thats why i use pacifism, didnt you think about that?.

It may be me or my playing hours (Dont know if European TA is mixed with American TA, i dont even know if you play in american servers xD) but i have had no serious problem with mesmers so far. (It takes a while to mastering the
15 - 5 energy set, but once in, its not so hard to mantain a constant healing, and if the mesmer is focused on me the anti melee is free to protect the rest of the team). Nope, ive nearly never faced a mesmer wich can bother me, because its necesary that it shut me down WITH some damage being actually dealt...Diversion is nice, but kills me not, and so on. They can be really frustrating, i recognice it, but its not my main worry. Im actually more worried about interrupt rangers

, and the signet is like a war-call for them). They interrupt you and add pressure at the same time..... But they are not as frequent thank god. (it takes 10 or more games to match a mesmer who can realy bother you, but you have to manage thumpers and warriors in every 9/10 maches).

Pacifism 12 mana (Counting boon) and heals me 45 of divine favour + boon healing (67 i think?), thats more than the signet itself. And shutdown a thumper-warrior-assasin for 16 seconds. 16 seconds without pressure, in that time i can recharge full of energy :/. (I didnt understand the hex team part, you are the hex team?, its truly an honest question :/)

IF the signet would trigger the divine favour i would rethink it...
IF it was protection i would rethink it... (For the fast cast/fast recharge)
IF I were in the safe back of a complete team i would sure use it...

But this is not, this is TA, its wild and fast, you have no lines, and no place to run. You cannot rely on a 2 sec 100 healing signet for surviving....

(And by the way, i didnt think that pacifism would work.... it was a crazy experiment "What-if-i-try-this" thing, and it work....it absoulutely did... im honestly surprised

).

deathy · Aug 30, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

not a conventional build but has got me 5 glad points past 3 days:

- reversal of fortune
no explanation

- mend condition
I prefer this to ailment due to the faster recharge, cripple doesnt do much to me where there are no lines, and i'm past the "panic" mentality, so im able to ignore the irrelevant degen on me

- guardian
with warriors being main source of damage in most arena teams...

- signet of devotion
huge argument in this thread, but i just find it such a great skill

- physical resistance
first major variant, but normally means that i can't die even when i have multiple warriors and knock downs on me. With melee pressure being the main damage, and me being the main target...

- mantra of recall
personal opinion, prefer it to e drain, but sometimes switch

- channeling
again, huge argument in this thread, but, its a cover enchant for a start, and nearly always gets me 2-3 energy, as there are no lines in arena, it is very easy to stand amongst the enemy, and spam my skills. Also if they have a rt spirit spammer its gg when i stand amongst them and thumpers cannot do much

- divine boon

other: i use all minors and +30hp mods for a total of 590 health

i use: (pvp char)
Set 1: +5 energy +30hp sword with +5> energy+30hp focus
Set 2: -5 energy +30hp sword with shield

Set 1: around 54 i think
Set 2: around 32 i think

Tactic: (for people that don't know)
Switch up to set 1 NOT switch down to set 2

------------
you may notice that i don't have prot spirit, cop or inspired hex, my reasons are

prot spirit just hurts my energy too much, and especially with little coordination for spikes comparesd to gvg or ha, i rarely find its worth the energy

the only times i need to desperately cop that hex off is when i have a warrior pounding on me, and physical resistance takes care of that nicely, some hexes are a problem, but the only real problem one is diversion, which cop wouldnt help with anyway

i find that chanelling is better e management than inspired hex, and that 1 hex removal against a hex team will not save you anyway, again the main annoying hexes such as migraine or diversion, inspired hex wont help with anyway

-------
Well there you go, my build. I'm going to get flamed but at least i've justified my useage of skills ^^

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Nice build, some changes there.

I gotta try the phyisical resistance. But im not sure it gonna work so well as pacifism for anti-melee-pressure. (But i will go out there and try it).

Chaneling doesnt worth it in my opinion, sometimes it can save you from 2 energy per cast, but you need to re-cast it and most of the times, theres only one enemy on you, and 1 per cast definitely dont worth it.

This weekend i will try out again with the signet.... ill come back with the results . I hope i can find out why you all love it

.

Divineshadows · Aug 30, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalfill0

Pacifism 12 mana (Counting boon) and heals me 45 of divine favour + boon healing (67 i think?), thats more than the signet itself. And shutdown a thumper-warrior-assasin for 16 seconds. 16 seconds without pressure, in that time i can recharge full of energy :/. (I didnt understand the hex team part, you are the hex team?, its truly an honest question :/)

Pacifism does NOT heal you since it is cast on a foe and therefore does not trigger divine favor or divine boon. What is being said about pacafism is that in order to make sure it does not get inspired off by the opposing monk and then re-cast onto your warrior, you need to run it in a build loaded with hexes. Pacifism is a cute trick that works in some RA matches. If you're beating teams in TA using it, then it is not on the strength of pacifism. Rather it would be on the strength of your 3 teammates and your other 7 skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathy

- physical resistance
first major variant, but normally means that i can't die even when i have multiple warriors and knock downs on me. With melee pressure being the main damage, and me being the main target...

Anyone looking to have less armor against any informed melee attacker should run this skill so they can die quicker....

deathy · Aug 30, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

- physical resistance
first major variant, but normally means that i can't die even when i have multiple warriors and knock downs on me. With melee pressure being the main damage, and me being the main target...

Anyone looking to have less armor against any informed melee attacker should run this skill so they can die quicker....

if your referring to element weapon handle things then i havent seen it once while using physical resistance, and i suppose its a price you have to pay for it being effective the rest of the time

if your referring to something else then care to explain it?

Zookie · Aug 30, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

gandalfill0 said:

Quote:

(Most of the time in TA if you are facing a good team) that 90 healing (It doesnt even trigger divine favour....) means nothing and the 2 sec cast can kill you.

Pacifism: Hex Spell. For 8...18 seconds, target foe cannot attack. This effect ends if the target takes damage. Energy:10, Cast Time: 2 sec Recharge:30 sec.

2 sec cast time is good or bad?

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

"Pacifism does NOT heal you since it is cast on a foe and therefore does not trigger divine favor or divine boon. What is being said about pacafism is that in order to make sure it does not get inspired off by the opposing monk and then re-cast onto your warrior, you need to run it in a build loaded with hexes. Pacifism is a cute trick that works in some RA matches. If you're beating teams in TA using it, then it is not on the strength of pacifism. Rather it would be on the strength of your 3 teammates and your other 7 skills."

That was a really bad call for me, because i has just realized that one

.im so embarased

. im so so so sorry

Prety sorry for the healing part, but its still 16 sec shutdown

.

And yes, i won a lot of matches lately (in TA not RA), and on some of them pacifism took a very important role. The hex removal thing its sooooooo conditional that its not a valid point. I can hex removal it and cast it again with same posibilities....

Im not saying that pacifism win matches all alone, no monk abilities do it in fact. But i do prefer it than protective spirit or signet of devotion.

And dont think also that i spam it repeteadly without even thinking..... i use it under pressure and always communicating it to my mates. Its same thing as Cop or chaneling or signet. They are conditional spells, but in the right conditions it can give you the time you need for recovering. And i find the right conditions to use pacifism more often than the others. Thats all.

Pacifist monk!,oh yeah! flower power!. (I need a pink dye).

Zookie read everyting before posting

Ive said
IF it was protection i would rethink it... (For the fast cast/fast recharge)

Anyway, i find that risking pacifism its still more eficcient than risking mere 100 heal points :/.....

But i dont really mind all the answering pacifism has gotten....because. Everything you say is "Numbers dont lie", you are Csi?. Ive seen noone who has go out there with it and actually have seen that it doesnt work. Thats the only advice i really appreciate.
It seems obvius that im an experimental person, 4th physic year....there i go.....

(Its same as mantra and energy, maths wont make the difference, seing if you die with one or another will do).

JR · Aug 30, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalfill0

But i dont really mind all the answering pacifism has gotten....because. Everything you say is "Numbers dont lie", you are Csi?. Ive seen noone who has go out there with it and actually have seen that it doesnt work. Thats the only advice i really appreciate.
It seems obvius that im an experimental person, 4th physic year....there i go.....

(Its same as mantra and energy, maths wont make the difference, seing if you die with one or another will do).

You realise that against any team in TA your Pacifism will get removed in roughly three seconds, so all you have achieved is wasting energy?

Thom Bangalter · Aug 30, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

You realise that against any team in TA your Pacifism will get removed in roughly three seconds, so all you have achieved is wasting energy?

not only that, it will probably get inspired by one of their prot monks, thus giving THEM energy. And, possibly, they will use pacifism back on you (though that seems pretty wasteful).

and physical resistance? Crap like that is THE reason I have elemental weapons in my inventory.

gandalfill0 · Aug 30, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

No Jr, it hasnt been removed in 3 seconds so far. Not too often....

But i continue to say it... and i will say it again (Its last time XD).

Just give it a try!, i didnt think it would work... But it did!

I thought it was gonna be countered, removed, diverted, and i thought it was not gonna worth it.... but it did, for me and so far, it can be unbelivable or it can be my problem, my team, the hours I play, there is a lot of things that affects experiments but it works . So, till my experiments continue to prove that all the + > - i will stick to it.

Thats why i study physics and no maths....Theories can say what they want, but if the theory says A and the experiment says B, i will remain with B. No doubt.

Thom, and i can inspire it and re-cast it..... same energy for both. But the posibilites are very low... ive not seen it even once...

Divineshadows · Aug 30, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathy

if your referring to element weapon handle things then i havent seen it once while using physical resistance, and i suppose its a price you have to pay for it being effective the rest of the time

if your referring to something else then care to explain it?

Yes, I was referring to elemental weapons. Anyone who is not observant enough to see you use physical resistence (or hell actually pay attention to the damage numbers they are doing) and switch to an elemental weapon does not deserve to win anyway. Anyone who does not know how to weapon swap is still stuck in their PvE ways. Anyone who was not prepared enough to actually bring an elemental melee weapon is not thinking properly about their team -- they need the ability to punish warriors in frenzy at times.

It has been said many times before on this forum -- which teams are you preparing your team to beat: the good ones or the bad ones? Against the good teams you are just boosting their DPS by using that skill giving you yet another obstacle to overcome.

Running physical resistence AND channeling on the same bar it is clearly obvious you are trying to set yourself up for a situation where you do not have to kite. No such situation exists in Guild Wars PvP and you will be punished by the good teams for thinking otherwise. learn2kite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalfill0

Ive seen noone who has go out there with it and actually have seen that it doesnt work. Thats the only advice i really appreciate.

I have a friend who enjoys using it in RA on his boon prot (he ctrl+clicks the use of it to inform his team in hopes they won't attack the pacified) despite me telling him how bad the skill is.

If numbers do not lie, then consider the evidence. I have never lost in TA to a team that had pacifism on their monk (at least that had their monk actually cast pacifism onto one of my teammates) in somewhere between 30 to 50 cases. I have rarely seen it used lately, but 3 or 4 months ago it actually came up fairly often along with amity. I always loved using inspired hex and my spare energy casting it back on their melee as my team was already pounding the opposition into the ground. Did the hex "stick" on my team? No. Did it stick when I recast onto their team? Often it did cause their monk was already under enough pressure and their build was flawed in not having off-monk hex removal.

sno · Aug 30, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

It has been said many times before on this forum -- which teams are you preparing your team to beat: the good ones or the bad ones?

QFT. Arguments for the use of bad skills like pacifism go directly to this question, and it seems to me that the answer lies in individual skill. Good players can run builds made to beat good teams, and then simply use that same player skill to destroy the bad teams. Bad players often rely on these bad skills to push their team just beyond the abilities of the opposing bad team. They have no chance of beating the good teams anyways, so they load themselves up against the bad teams to give them what they think is an 'edge'. Most of the time teams like these rely only on the skills on their bar, instead of actual tactics. As Divine said, pacifism is like kiting in skill form, only it doesn't last as long, and costs more. Many skills people use could just as easily be replaced by tactics, without the use of a skill slot. This allows all 32 skills to be used for things that tactics alone can't provide.

deathy · Aug 30, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Many people in this thread don't seem to understand that kiting in ta is completely different to kiting in gvg, while in gvg if you see an enemy running towards you, you run backwards, either making them break off their attack or causing them to become overextended(then you snare/spike them). In ta there are no lines, if i run backwards the warrior can follow, me and my team will nto be able to punish them, it just allows the warriors to make me split from my team and make me easier to kill. Obviously i kite, by running around in my little circles, but i can't just kite backwards out of harms way if i see warriors run to me, and let the other monk take over healing for a while, it just doesnt work, im the only monk.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 30, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathy

Many people in this thread don't seem to understand that kiting in ta is completely different to kiting in gvg, while in gvg if you see an enemy running towards you, you run backwards, either making them break off their attack or causing them to become overextended(then you snare/spike them). In ta there are no lines, if i run backwards the warrior can follow, me and my team will nto be able to punish them, it just allows the warriors to make me split from my team and make me easier to kill. Obviously i kite, by running around in my little circles, but i can't just kite backwards out of harms way if i see warriors run to me, and let the other monk take over healing for a while, it just doesnt work, im the only monk.

Many people in this thread are also among the best players in TA.

Kiting in TA is easy, just kite in rather large circles around your team, keeping them in helaing range.

Keep in mind that if the enemie's warrior is chasing you and you're running away from him, that means that the vast majority of the enemy offense has been negated with no energy cost from you.