Curse

TomD22 · Aug 20, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I've been playing Fort Aspenwood for the first time today. I'm Kurzik. It kinda seems to me that it's a little...unbalanced in places.

A guildie reccommended to me that i take a life barrier bonder in, so i did (also with life bond, balth's spirit, life attune, gift of health and prot spirit). Alone and unassisted this build can hold an outer gate against anything and everything that attacks it, just by bonding up an NPC then sitting inside the gate healing him as necessary. Doing this, i've won 8/9 matches (lost one when a cleverer-than-usual mesmer realised that if he came right up to the gate he was in range of me, degened me, i have no self heals so retreat, and the NPC dies). But seriously, this strategy just makes winning matches ridiculously easy. Even if you lose your gate, or they all pile through the other one, you can just fall back and bond the juggernought, or if really necessary gunther himself, and so long as you kite and hide (ie don't get urself killed) there's nothing they can do.

Now i like the fact that i can win matches and farm faction this easily (where else can one character-build be certain of winning the fight, even with 7 random teammates?) but it does seem a little unfrair on the Luxons....

On the other hand, of the 5 times i've played sth other than life barrier bonder, i've lost all 5. I tried poison / interrupt ranger and shutdown 1 turtle, but we still got overwhelmed. I tried runner for amber, but no point in that when they just kill gunther. Tried normal killing-stuff warrior but didn't get far there either. So in this case, it seems things are biased rather towards the luxons, and it's pretty much impossible to win as Kurzik.

So, we have a case where as Kurzik to win, all you need to win is turtle, and you can do that with just 1 or 2 bond monks. The whole rest of the team could go afk if they wanted. But if you try to go offensive at all, you lose (generally within 5 minutes).

So from playing a few matches today it all seems very unbalanced. What might be changed?

SirJackassIII · Aug 20, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

...

Kurzicks are SUPPOSED to play defensive...
Luxons are SUPPOSED to go on an all out offense with the Turtles...

Kurzicks defending the fort by means of traps, Bonds, healing, Spirits: GOOD
Kurzicks defending the fort by killing the Commanders: bad

The reason Kurzicks lose is because 9/10 times, more then half the party has an offensive build, and then they complain they can't defend properly.

Bonders are indeed kind of cheap. I once had a case where the other team had 2 bonders, and we (Luxons) didn't have enchant removal (well, we had a Mes with Shatter Enchant, but that's hardly enough). Guess what happened. Turtles killed 2 Kurzick Eles that guarded the gate, Team on Purple side killed the Kurzicks that had come out once to pick up Amber, so us Luxons had nothing left to do. Killed a grand total of 8 people(6 PC, 2 NPC), then the Kurzick just stayed back in the fort laughing at us (Typical suxons crap and all, I gotta say IMO the Kurzicks are more immature then Luxons). Whole Luxon team had left by the time it was at 35%. Even when on the Kurzick side, having 2 bonders isn't fun. Just sit there and wait for the timer to reach 100%, big freaking whoop.
So yeah, if anything would be changed, I'd say the Kurzick DO in fact have to run Amber. It's even in their mission description. "Run Amber to Gunther so he may finish the Weapon", not "Kick back in the fort, don't deliver Amber and Gunther'll do it all by himself".

For discussion about FA being balanced or not, go to the Alliance Forums(unless this is moved). I'd say it's balanced if the Kurzick team somewhat knows what they're doing.

AW Lore · Aug 20, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

welcome to the fort, people will come saying "it is not biased towards the luxons" others will say "its heavily biased towards the luxons".

as you can see, playing a monk is one of the ways to be able to win this place, reason? this place is an endurance match, the longer you can keep stuff alive (npcs, yourselfs, others) the higher your chances of surviving.

i have won most of my matches as a monk, not a bonder, but a heal/prot, check the canthan league of explorers, there is a thread there that has this info.

with the access to pvp characters, i have seen more and more mesmers with shatter and necros with well of profanes, wich completely neutralizes the bonder.

Quote:

I tried runner for amber, but no point in that when they just kill gunther. Tried normal killing-stuff warrior but didn't get far there either. So in this case, it seems things are biased rather towards the luxons, and it's pretty much impossible to win as Kurzik.

did you gave the amber to the gatekeepers?
lots of people give it to gunther thinking it can make it faster to build the weapon, but in my opinion, its a lot more better to give it to the gatekeepers as they repair the gates and they can give valuable seconds to get another amber to repair the gates again, and if repaired in time, the reinforcements can appear just right between the turtle and luxon warriors, and with luck, they will take the warriors down with them.

i have won several matches with no monks because there were smart defenders in the base and we had a constant amber supply to keep the gates up, but you have higher chances to win if you have a monk.
(also you have more chances to see the luxons ragequit, and you can then take the tea with the remaining luxons in front of the green mine

)

Mithie · Aug 20, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Well of Profane = GG
Any form of enchant removal = GG

TomD22 · Aug 20, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Ofc profane / enchant removal would be gg but no-one brings it (at least not in the matches i have played).

Yes, i can see Kurzik's are meant to be defensive, but it kinda seems to me that when one character, a bonder monk, can win 100% of matches, it's a little unbalanced.

Shendaar · Aug 20, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Bonders are so easy to deal with, I don't understand how so many people think they are a problem. Any form of Enchant removal will render the bonder useless and if you have just one caster, you can prevent the bonder from healing the bonded npc. Pretty much all bonders have little to no ways of healing themselves, so even the slightest bit of pressure will force the bonder to retreat out of healing range.

Bonders are only a major problem when your team does not have any caster capable of hitting through walls.

yesitsrob · Aug 20, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

you get away with running a bonder because everytime i've played aspenwood both teams are full of crap. This is the harsh truth. No one brings enchantment removal because well, they don't.

If both teams played and had somewhat equal ability then the map is heavily favoured towards the luxon side. In their chances of winning and in the sense that Luxon wins can come much much faster

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 20, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

i went in with a 55 monk and agroed 1 turtle and half the team they oculdnt kill me and the turtle wouldnt move

fallot · Aug 20, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

The one thing that seems "imbalanced" to me is that Luxons can win games quicker than Kurzicks can, much quicker. The Kurzicks need to hold out for the entire duration, the Luxons just have to kill Gunther. It reflects somewhat in the prices of Jade and Amber as well. In the time it takes for me to win on the Kurzick side, I could have won twice or even three times (if lucky) with the Luxons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

If both teams played and had somewhat equal ability then the map is heavily favoured towards the luxon side. In their chances of winning and in the sense that Luxon wins can come much much faster

If both teams play to the best of their abilities with skillbars that actually fulfill important roles, the Kurzicks stand a slightly better chance of winning simply because its difficult to break through a strong defence even with turtles. I agree with you completely in that Luxon wins come quick when they come though. Whether that is imbalanced or not is debateable since victory is secondary to:

1) How much money you can make off the faction: Since Amber is more pricey than Jadeite, this balances out well enough IMO. The fact that this may be due to the imbalance between faction gains in the first place is irrelevant.

2) How much faction you can give to your alliance: Since you compete with other Kurzicks alliances to hold towns, a comparison between Kurzick and Luxon faction gained in Aspenwood is pointless.

So it may not be imbalanced at all, despite what I've stated in my first paragraph.

Astraea Zopyros · Aug 20, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

As a bonder myself, I'm not quite sure why so many people have trouble defeating us (bonders). There is absolutely nothing that keeps you from taking on a secondary like necromancer (Well of the Profane kicks my booty) or even just keeping me out of healing range of the bondee (using a caster). When I play on the luxon side, I carry all my normal healing skills plus Well of the Profane. Even without points in necromancer skills, it will still do its job--prevent bonds on the NPC for long enough to kill him.

Guildmaster Cain · Aug 20, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Luxons gain faction faster because they can end the game faster in their favor. Though it is hard, my team has 2 times succeeded in killing all the luxon NPC's. But in opposition to the Luxon side, it is not possible to get into the opponents base. Luxons can only teleport out, but noone can get into their base. To make it equal to both sides, their should be a high commander on the Luxon side, that is far away in their camp. That would speed up de Kurzick faction gathering and make it as fast as Luxon.

And agreed on above post... just be smarter than your opponent.

ubermancer · Aug 20, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

This game is not supposed to be equal, its supposed to be balanced.

Guildmaster Cain · Aug 20, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Is there a big difference in that you are trying to point out?

Count to Potato · Aug 20, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Also its not unbalanced if a mesmer brings enchant removal

Guildmaster Cain · Aug 20, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

not unbalanced = balanced, :P

And mesmer enchant removal wont stop bonder
Eell of profane is hard, but possible to survive, if you bring non-enchanting healing skills and the flood of luxons isnt too big.

There are also builds that insure luxons to win the battle ofc, and even these builds can be countered in turn. Thus a balanced game.

aron searle · Aug 20, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

If the target is under a concentrated attack, he will die if hes enchants are removed very quickly, if he dosnt its typicly because you either have 2 or more bonders, or the team dosnt cordinate the attack properly. Alternativly if its one bonder heavy degen with no attacks can be enough if someone can also shot him through the gate, the problem is telling the whammos to stop attacking a bonded target, as all they do is charge essance bond.

Having played bonder on the kurzic side i was often told that i was cheating.

him = you suck you cheat
me = you should have bought strip
him = i cant i havnt got the secondary smartass
me = change your secondary then
him = it wouldnt work with my build

Its annoying how many have said that, change your frikken build then, or dont whinge your not prepared.

Sometimes i take it, sometimes i dont when im luxon, when i dont i gamble that someone else will, if i come up against a bonder and the casters (if im not caster) cant attack through the gate, well i took a gamble and lost.

Ninna · Aug 20, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I'm a ranger - and I always bring Profane if I play Luxon

I use no other necro skills

anyone can can bring 1 skill from a 2nd class

eternal pho · Aug 20, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Traps are also very good if you're on the kurzik side.

Juicey Shake · Aug 20, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I <3 cripshot w/ NR instead of res sig, buhbye bonder.

Divinus Stella · Aug 20, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I like taking in a blessed aura/bond/balth monk, i just chain HH and seed along with an odd prot spirit and the architect will never die, even if they kill me, i res in 3-4 seconds and run back to seed the architect.

It only works because theres never any half decent players in alliance battles and such.