Curse

Riotgear · Aug 16, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

There is also a glitch that I found where you can produce twice as many warriors per turtle. If you thought 4 was too much imagine 8 per turtle.

That's what happens when you kill the turtle before the squad is mobilized, it respawns with 4 new warriors.

Steehl · Aug 16, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

As it stands now I run Aspenwood on my Ritualist. I'm by no means a pro at anything but I hold my own and, for the most part, contribute well to the team.

I will generally help take the first two mines and run a couple pieces of amber until I'm asked to help elsewhere. "Elsewhere" is generally when the turtles breech the outer gates. Should things get under control again I return to running amber unless the team requests me to stay and help at a gate, which does happen on occassion.

As of my last post I had not been part of a group that repaired the green gate, as of last night that all changed. However in all the groups I was with yesterday only one managed to repair the green gate.

My suggestions are simple and not unbalancing in any way and many people have expounded upon the suggestions I made and made them more balanced. Granted some people have run with it and gone overboard but not all have.

I believe the most beneficial and balancing changes that could be made would be to add another Juggernaught, and make the Luxons have to perform some objective to respawn their Turtles (such as running amber). This would not cause a catastrophic imbalance in the other direction, only even things out.

I do agree that the Kurzick NPCs are morons though, I mean a Jungle Troll knows to move out of a Firestorm but the Kurzick gateguards don't know to move out of the impact zone of a Siege Turtle Attack?

JoDiamonds · Aug 16, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

As others have said, I don't think it's unbalanced when the players know what they are doing. As others have said, most of the time players don't know what they are doing. In that case, Luxons have it easier.

The Luxon plan is simpler to execute. It's just true. Go kill everyone.

Kurzicks are playing base defense, with two sub-targets (the turtles). There's nothing else they care about much; possibly there's an Amber-running strategy that simply hasn't been found to be popular yet.

I think part of the issue is simply that a balanced group of whatever you want to play works out well for Luxons but not for Kurzicks. Kurzicks (usually) want a lot of trappers and a couple of Ritualists, probably, as well as some healers. Luxons benefit hugely from the first two healers on the team, but other than that anyone capable of dealing damage is fine.

Players take whatever they feel like, though, which means that Luxons again tend to have an advantage.

Lastly, I think that slight imbalances are exaggerated on these pseudo PvP maps. I think win-oriented Kurzicks tend to not play Aspenwood because they tend to lose there, just as win-oriented Luxons tend not to play Alliance Battles (for similar reasons). I don't think it's possible to say that one side or the other is simply better at the game, in general. But social and psychological aspects can drive people away, making the imbalance even bigger.

RachelCrow · Aug 17, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Hi I'm Rachel Crow and somebody told me somebody made a post sort of about me so i had to learn how to use this thing so i can clear things ok.

Ok first of all, i don't know who spirit in the sea is, whoever that is thats not me you can even msg me in guild wars at Rachel Crow lol. And demesis, i never met you maybe you did the same thing but i figured out by accident.

Ok also since everybody thinks that trick is a bad thing I just want to remind people that if a kurzick team has no healer, and a degen mesmer and eoe elementalist attack the master architech he will die and nobody can do anything :P But really you guys are kind of weirdos for arguing so whatever poop on you if you don't like my trick, i play for both sides anyways.

Paperfly · Aug 17, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

...Riiight. I think we can all agree to ignore Rachel Crow entirely, yes?

Quote:

I do agree that the Kurzick NPCs are morons though, I mean a Jungle Troll knows to move out of a Firestorm but the Kurzick gateguards don't know to move out of the impact zone of a Siege Turtle Attack?

This is a feature, not a bug! The guards staying stationary is what makes bonding them possible, which is still probably the most powerful Kurzick road to victory. In fact, the reverse is more of a problem - if the Luxons know what they're doing, they can pull the eles out of healing range and keep them there long enough to kill them.

...Incidentally, in terms of standard mob AI mechanics, a siege turtle attack is nothing like a firestorm. These things have to be scripted in individually, you know.

Quote:

make the Luxons have to perform some objective to respawn their Turtles (such as running amber).

Nominally, Luxons have to defend their base commanders for the turtles to respawn. It's not usually a relevant, though, since attacking the commanders is strategically a very bad move from the Kurz perspective. I know that when I'm playing Luxon (I usually Kurz, btw) whenever I see the phrase "The Purple commander is under attack!" I throw up my hands and yell "Hurrah! One fewer defender to fight through!"

...I still stand by my earlier comments, though (and think some of you should have read them in the first place.

). Luxons should have strict NPC superiority to make up for the timer and spawn spots being in the Kurzicks' favour.

Riotgear · Aug 17, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steehl

I do agree that the Kurzick NPCs are morons though, I mean a Jungle Troll knows to move out of a Firestorm but the Kurzick gateguards don't know to move out of the impact zone of a Siege Turtle Attack?

And? Try Echo/Meteor Shower/Glyph of Sacrifice/Meteor Shower on the siege turtle and see how far away it moves. Cast Mark of Rodgort on it too. :P

Ira Blinks · Aug 17, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

The guards staying stationary is what makes bonding them possible, which is still probably the most powerful Kurzick road to victory. In fact, the reverse is more of a problem - if the Luxons know what they're doing, they can pull the eles out of healing range and keep them there long enough to kill them.

Well of Profane

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 18, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Well of Profane

And? The team won't always have a necro just like the Kurzicks won't always have a bonder bonding the NPCs.

Paperfly's point was that having stationary NPCs is strategically better for those defensive teams equipped to protect them. I sure as hell dont want the NPCs that I'm healing through the gate to get out of range. I prefer them stationary. So it's not an absolutely bad thing for the AI to stay inside a firestorm.

Silver_Fang · Aug 18, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

And? The team won't always have a necro just like the Kurzicks won't always have a bonder bonding the NPCs.

Paperfly's point was that having stationary NPCs is strategically better for those defensive teams equipped to protect them. I sure as hell dont want the NPCs that I'm healing through the gate to get out of range. I prefer them stationary. So it's not an absolutely bad thing for the AI to stay inside a firestorm.

the problem is, the NPC outside the gate can be pulled away, which means those that should not be stationary stay there like they are stuck with super glue but those that should be stationary is not stationary. which is worse.

Baggers · Aug 18, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

What is Fort Aspenwood all about?

I was kinda rushing through Factions on my Tyria Monk and I came to that, and didnt know what the hell was going on. The first few minutes everyone was just running around and dying. Then we got pushed back into the very back of our base and I spent the rest of the game healing people while we were trapped in our base. I never really understood the point of the game..

Silver_Fang · Aug 18, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baggers

What is Fort Aspenwood all about?

I was kinda rushing through Factions on my Tyria Monk and I came to that, and didnt know what the hell was going on. The first few minutes everyone was just running around and dying. Then we got pushed back into the very back of our base and I spent the rest of the game healing people while we were trapped in our base. I never really understood the point of the game..

Luxon attacks and Kurzick defends, point of the game is, nothing, its like a Mission for faction points farming.

Kurzick need to defend the fort until the Gods Vengeance bar fill up, you can use amber from the amber mine to repair the gate and speed up the filling the bar process.

Luxon just need to attack the base with turtles and NPC warrior. They need to kill Gunther before the bar is filled up. They attack the mine to gain a shorter resseruct point.

Paperfly · Aug 18, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Well of the Profane

Soul Feast has half the casting time. And a resolved Profane isn't necessarily game. Don't take my word for it, take my word for it!

JoDiamonds · Aug 18, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Fort Aspendwood and Jade Quarry are different gameplay formats (tied to specific maps). Others have already described them, but see also:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Fort_Aspenwood

Cherrie · Aug 19, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

One more reason to call this map unbalanced is:
if Kurzicks need balanced (right, how to balance a random team....), experienced and well cooperating team while Luxons need only... Luxons rushing and killing, its really hard to say the map is well designed. Sure, Turtles won't respawn if you take Luxon command point, but will the mission end than (like it does when you kill the Architect)? Why Kurzick Victory requires players to defend all Ritual/whatever time long, while Luxons can win in 2 min if the opposing team is unexperienced?

This map requires some second thoughts from its desingers imho, and as far as I can see the discussion here is only about how much unbalanced to call it.

hated · Aug 20, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

As I said before I'll say again, this is map is played so much is BECAUSE it's so damn unbalanced.

Having played jade quarry for the first time EVER, I found that it is quite a fun map where anyone can win and true balance is achieved. I find it really sad that the man or woman who made this wonderful map will instead chose to make much poorer ones in the future because evidently quality isn't very important.

I mean come on nothing makes sense at all in that map, would you really fight in a place that has almost no defense on it's own?

Real forts and places under siege have weapon emplacements, bunkers, fall back areas, reinforced walls, some kind of natural defenses (a moat, a ditch something to that degree), and supplies INSIDE the fort. What does FA have, two little elementalists outside the gate going WTF?!?!?!?, while the cannons pour hard rain on them.

Sad, so very very sad.

LoyalSoldier · Aug 20, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

That's what happens when you kill the turtle before the squad is mobilized, it respawns with 4 new warriors.

Well there are really two ways you can do it. One is if you kill the commander before the squad moves out, but there is a way you can do it from the Luxon side. I am not going to say how because we don't need more morons running around with it.

twicky_kid · Aug 20, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

A rit with shelter will keep the NPCs at the gate alive vs the turtles.

This map is not imbalanced. Its the players going in with the wrong type of character.

All you need for this map is runners, rits, and monks.

Cherrie · Aug 20, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Twicky, just because Kurzicks need "right" type of characters and Luxons do not makes it imbalanced...

Silver_Fang · Aug 20, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

A rit with shelter will keep the NPCs at the gate alive vs the turtles.

This map is not imbalanced. Its the players going in with the wrong type of character.

All you need for this map is runners, rits, and monks.

A rit with shelter cannot keep a NPC alive, esp when those NPC are under attack from turtle, warrior and MM, which most of the Luxon team compose of.

you need an addional helper or the rit need to be secondary that can remove hex.

You need a way to help the NPC regain life as well as hex removal, shelter prevent heavy damage only. Union will minimise the damage and displacement only prevent damage from the player and minions an warrior NPC, displacement wont affect turtle damage.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 20, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

A good prot monk and a good ritualist working together can keep out the Luxons indefinitely from one side, at least in theory.