Curse

Vanquisher · May 25, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Now, we need a counter article on the appropriate methods to stop kiters ^_^

Gale.

spitfie · May 25, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Cripple stops kiters. I admit that i havent been taking cripple or moves that slow them b/c people dont really kite well. If they start reading this guide though i may bring cripple so i can continue to pwnzored them.

Senator Tom · May 26, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

left out one of the most important parts, luring
probably doesnt really fit into this thread anyways, because this is about minimizing damage, not so much manipulation of the other team in the terrain.

Doc_Holliday · May 26, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I did not see mention of this in your original post or any of the replies so I will ask this question. Being relatively new to PVP, is it effective to kite as a monk? It seems as though my monk is always the first target and thus if I kite, I will not be able to heal. On the other hand, if I do not kite, then I die, very quickly. Helpful advice on this would be appreciated.

Byron · May 26, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc_Holliday

It seems as though my monk is always the first target and thus if I kite, I will not be able to heal. On the other hand, if I do not kite, then I die, very quickly.

Kite in between heals, and you'll find that you won't have to heal yourself nearly as often.

Warskull · May 26, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

This guide is fine other then these little tidbits. I'm not sure if you play a monk in TA GVG or PVP at all, but you do not kite to a monk. The most ineffecient monk scenerio is the constant self-heal as the party members drop around them. NEVER kite to a monk, YES stay in range, YES move around, YES run into aggro area and dump your persuer onto a tank or even a ranger, but for the love of your healer, don't drop a warrior chasing your arse onto your monk.

"Towards your Monk" and "To your Monk" are two entirely seperate things. 'Towards' indicates in the "general direction of" while 'to' indicates making a bee-line for your monk. No where do I indicate you should attempt to run straight to an ally when being chased by a warrior.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 26, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Just saying:

use gale
use cripple

to stop a kiter isn't very useful for a guide vs. kiters...

If there's going to be a guide for smart kiting, a counter guide to it has to be for smart countering...

I noticed nobody said:

use sprint
use Imagined Burden

Not just a list of anti-kite skills are needed either, maneuvers anyone?

If someone's gonna zig zag you, instead of shadowing him like a dumbass using just left-click + space bar, you can MANUALLY run in a straight line and just hack his spine when he's within range...

I'm thinking a 'chaser/pursuit' guide would be a good thing to write on and if nobody wants to, i can think of quite a few things such as scenarios and skill combos that'd actually be more productive than:

use gale...
use cripple...
use shock...

Ever thought of what you would do if the person your chasing is stuffing all of your snaring with anti-snares? dur, didn't think so...

Zatara · May 26, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I'm thinking a 'chaser/pursuit' guide would be a good thing to write on and if nobody wants to, i can think of quite a few things such as scenarios and skill combos that'd actually be more productive than:

use gale...
use cripple...
use shock...

Ever thought of what you would do if the person your chasing is stuffing all of your snaring with anti-snares? dur, didn't think so...

Would love to see that guide as well as that scenario in which someone is "stuffing all your snaring with anti-snares" .

But the easiest way is for people to just watch some observer mode and observe how top guilds deal with kiters the practical way. Unless of course you only play RA in which case stop it and play some GvG or at least TA.

TadaceAce · May 26, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

In PvP combat the damage a warrior can output is superior to anything else in the game.

Its funny you say that, in PvE they are even more devastating since nothing runs from you. The kicker is that 99% of warriors in PvE are too dumb to realize this and are W/Mo "tanks" (clueless people).

Oh, and Dove Song... I hope that 25 faction was worth the 2 and a half hours of your sad pathetic life.

Fungus Amongus · May 27, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

im a very calm guy. really, i mean it. but monks that can't manage their energy, overheal, and cannot understand efficiency drives me nuts. expect an article in a week or two when i am done with finals.

Read this before you write your own article:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ent-id1272.php

P.S. Thanks for the good read, Warskull.

Jestah · May 28, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Willis

I do feel that I must point out (though I apologise if it is already here) that warriors deal extra damage to a fleeing target I am not sure how much more so I cannot say whether or not it is worth running away for the extra damage you may take.

I remember reading that somewhere a while ago. Not sure if it's changed but I think I read somewhere hits to the back are auto critical. Doesn't seem so from experience but I've never really payed attention to it.

Edit: lol, just actually bothered to read the whole thing and Warskull already covered this.

Knight of Balthazer · May 28, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestah

I remember reading that somewhere a while ago. Not sure if it's changed but I think I read somewhere hits to the back are auto critical. Doesn't seem so from experience but I've never really payed attention to it.

I've heard that somewhere also, but i can't remember where...

Tigris Of Gaul · May 28, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I'm pretty sure SonOfRah said that in his damage article. 75% sure.
I'm also pretty sure that it's been tested to be wrong.

Greedy Gus · May 28, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I was under the impression that the auto-crit was when you hit a "fleeing" foe, where it's squarely on the back and they're running away (like the old bull's strike/charge required).

Zui · May 28, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I was under the impression that the auto-crit was when you hit a "fleeing" foe, where it's squarely on the back and they're running away (like the old bull's strike/charge required).

Ditto.

Jestah · May 29, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Dove Song, I hate to be negative but I'd stop digging already and accept you're wrong. A Warrior IS the single highest sustainable source of DPS there is, no question. There are classes that can spike and deal large damage over a short period of time but none of them can keep it up indefinitely. Arguably, with the almost mandatory anti-melee skills carried in GvG, warriors aren't as effective as some of the figures would suggest but they still outclass anything when it comes to pressure.

You've been playing to much arenas by the sounds of it. RA isn't really considered true PvP since not having the ability to select your team in a purely team-based game will never be competetive.

Jaran Cell · May 29, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Its true that an clean warrior free of all anti warrior hexes and conditions has the best dmg over time of all the classes
However they also have the most easy to decrease dmg output.
If you play in a team with bad monks you can be rendered virtually useless by several skills, Blinding Flash anyone?

Greedy Gus · May 29, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaran Cell

Its true that an clean warrior free of all anti warrior hexes and conditions has the best dmg over time of all the classes
However they also have the most easy to decrease dmg output.
If you play in a team with bad monks you can be rendered virtually useless by several skills, Blinding Flash anyone?

And casters can be rendered virtually useless by interrupts or knockdowns.

Jestah · May 29, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Yeah no offense Nymph but that is the kind of ridiculous thing you hear in Random Areas. If you want to discuss that I suggest posting on gameamp guides (they love RA there). Clearly you've either never played organised PvP or been playing it with your eyes closed.

Vanquisher · May 29, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Just saying:

use gale
use cripple

to stop a kiter isn't very useful for a guide vs. kiters...

If there's going to be a guide for smart kiting, a counter guide to it has to be for smart countering...

Okay, here's a better shot at it.

People in high level PvP will tend to kite, unless they're aware there's no threat to them (ie. Warrior's building on them when both teams are fully up at the start of the match). Further into GvG, when teams are pressuring each other, there will be quick switching going around. Thus, in order to kite effectively, teams will try to overextend Warriors and fall back on them to get some cheap kills. This can be done using snares etc. or just by having the opposing Warriors losing focus.

Generally speaking, you cannot "stop kiting" with the use of general play, unless bodyblocking counts. However, this will usually be done to aid in getting morale boosts, or keeping someone alive until after the time. So we go back to what I said before, Gale, other snares, and speed-buffs.

Okay, and now back onto the matter of kiting in general. You have to remember, there is more to thus than just running when people are attacking you. You need to learn to prekite, and you need to learn where to kite to, and when to stop and cast, and how to use your team to delay anyone chasing you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nymph of Meliai

I always found running away gets you killed faster and without you doing any damage in return. I guess it depends on your class but a monk can tank a warrior long enough for the rest of the team to come and help and if a ranger can get troll off then it can too.

Bad idea. Sitting there taking damage results in wasted Energy - which there will be, and eventual death and 'full wipe'. Rangers are slightly harder targets, but it doesn't stop the fact that sitting there while being attacked is generally a bad idea. Particularly when in high-end PvP there is a stronger aspect of focus-fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nymph of Meliai

I suggest that instead of running immediately to the monks you inform your team mates of the problem and then pull to your tanks. Let them block the chaser and allowing you to escape.

This isn't Random Arena. This is competitive play. We don't waste slots with tanks, generally (although for the longest time I've been asking my Guild if we can run a Stance Tank / Bodyblock Build to gank Guild Lord's.

Oh, and I'm not saying this is the best article on kiting, but it's a pretty good starter guide and something people should be aware of when they try to start getting involved in the competitive environment of Guild Wars. Notice the reason teams that run tanks in GvG are generally ranked 1000+, and teams that don't are ranked in the top 10. Top 10 teams don't tend to waste character slots.