Curse

Cursed Steelbringer · Jun 07, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

My Guild is starting to get into GvG (so far were only rank 630

, but were getting better) and I recently thought about a build with two smiters to provide an advantage in 8v8 against most normal balanced teams, but im fairly unexperienced in PvP so help would be greatly appreciated.
(please overlook my mistakes for english is not my first language)

W/x Hammer Warrior

Hammer 16
Strength 10
Tactics 10

Devastating Hammer (Hammer) {Elite}
Crushing Blow (Hammer)
Irresistible Blow (Hammer)
Frenzy (Other)
Rush (Strength)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Rez-Sig (Other)

W/E Axe Warrior

Axe 16
Strength 10
Tactics 10
Air 3

Eviscerate (Axe) {Elite}
Executioners (Axe)
Penetrating (Axe)
Frenzy (Other)
Sprint (Strength)
Shock (Air)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Rez-Sig (Other)

E/Mo Air-Ele Flagrunner

Air 16
Energy 9
Healing 10

Lightning Strike (Air)
Lightning Orb (Air)
Blinding Flash (Air)
Enervating Charge (Air)
Windborne Speed (Air)
Heal Party (Healing)
Healing Breeze (Healing)
Ether Prodgiy (Energy) {Elite}

E/Mo Water Ele (Snares for making Smiting do more dmg)

Water 14
Energy 9
Heling 12

Ice Prison (Water)
Ice Spikes (Water)
Deep Freeze (Water)
Blurred Vision (Water)
Draw Conditions (Prot)
Heal Party (Healing)
Ether Prodigy (Energy) {Elite}
Rez-Sig (Other)

2 Mo/Me Boon Prots

Divine 16
Prot 9
Insp 10

Reversal (Prot)
Guardian (Prot)
Prot. Spirit (Prot)
CoP (Divine)
Mend Condition (Prot)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
MoR (Inspiration) {Elite}
Boon (Divine)

2 Mo/Me Smiter

Smiting 16
Prot 10
Divine 10
Domination 3

Reversal (Prot)
Guardian (Prot)
Smite Hex (Prot)
Hex Breaker (Domination)
Balthasars Aura (Smiting)
Zealots Fire (Smiting)
Air of Ench. (Prot) {Elite}
Rez-Sig (Other)

You problably could split the team into two teams of
1w
1 e
1 Smite
1 Boon
but im not sure how it would work out
I would greatly appreciate any constructive Criticism.

EDIT:
Swapped Air and Water Ele
Added Hex Breaker on the Smiters
Changed attribute spread on the Boon Prots
Added linked attributes to skills

Lord Dark Genie · Jun 07, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

I'd bring a water ele instead of the air with the flag-stand team. Snares really help with the smite damage.
Swap out ice prison on the flagger, zealot's will kill it.
Hex Breaker fits nicely on the smiters, it helps a lot against diversion spam.

The rest looks pretty good

Stixxx · Jun 07, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

As far i can see, the only damage you do is melee (exept for the ele snares). These days there is alot of Warrior / melee hate out there. I suggest to add a mesmer instead of a 2nd smiter.

My 2 cents

Cursed Steelbringer · Jun 07, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Warrior Hate doesnt prevent the Smite Damage, unless of course you talk about Snares which should be removed.
I think adding a mesmer instead of a second smiter would harm my ability to Split and still do decent damage.

But if i would do it, what kind of mesmer should i add (Mesmers and Monks are the classes I dont know much about)
Diversion Spam?
E-Drainer?

Stixxx · Jun 07, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I'd go for a Surge/Interrupter build

Cursed Steelbringer · Jun 07, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

I just thought about a Sword Warrior with Bulls Charge instead of the Axe Warrior. The added Knockdown should make the smite dmg even more painful.
What do you guys think about it?

JR · Jun 07, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Build looks solid to be honest. I would probably drop Protection down to 9 on the Boon Prots to run Divine at 16, but that is honestly the only change that strikes me right now.

A suggestion would maybe be further snares on the Warriors; Rake instead of Penetrating on the Axe, and maybe changing to Backbreaker on the Hammer? I would definately consider dropping Healing Signet on the Axe Warrior for Bull's Strike. Healing Signet is great, but you have two heal parties on the E/Mos and passive divine healing from the Smiters.

If you were to decide to swap out Devastating for Backbreaker on the Hammer, you could also consider swapping Healing Signet for "To The Limit!" to help build adrenaline faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Steelbringer

I just thought about a Sword Warrior with Bulls Charge instead of the Axe Warrior. The added Knockdown should make the smite dmg even more painful.
What do you guys think about it?

Bull's Charge smite is interesting. I played fairly extensively with Bull's Charge Sword Warriors after it was buffed, and wasn't overly impressed. However, that was mainly down to the inability to spike with it; meaning you may aswell just run Bull's Strike. In a Smite build however... I can see it's uses.

Good build, i'll put it up in the Directory submissions unless you have an objection.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 07, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

smite doesnt really work in GvG.
People arent clumped enough like in HA for the AoE damage of the smites.

Cursed Steelbringer · Jun 07, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

More Snares on the Warriors do indeed seem like a good idea.
Still, I'm not really comfortable with warriors without Healing Sig. If they have to run a flag in a pinch, or stop an assasin from soloing our base, they might have a hard time without it. I'll definitely try it though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Good build, i'll put it up in the Directory submissions unless you have an objection.

Of course I do not have any objections

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell is for Heroes

smite doesnt really work in GvG.
People arent clumped enough like in HA for the AoE damage of the smites.

I know that it wont hit a lot of people at once, but i still think the damg output, even on a single target is pretty good

JR · Jun 07, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

smite doesnt really work in GvG.
People arent clumped enough like in HA for the AoE damage of the smites.

Watch observer mode, there are some decent guilds running Smite very well.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 07, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Watch observer mode, there are some decent guilds running Smite very well.

im sure there are Guilds that can run dual smite well.

however, "running dual smite" well has a different meaning to "dual smite works"

put it this way, all you have to do in GvGs is just dont clump so much around each other. Thats a lot harder to do in HA.

Patrograd · Jun 07, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Watch observer mode, there are some decent guilds running Smite very well.

/agree. it is a very nice pressure/degen build. Despite people not being bunched up and generally being better players than in HA, this works, largely due to the lack of enchant removal in a typical GvG team. Its not so strong in split squad mind you, the damage isnt quite there.

JR · Jun 07, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

im sure there are Guilds that can run dual smite well.

however, "running dual smite" well has a different meaning to "dual smite works"

put it this way, all you have to do in GvGs is just dont clump so much around each other. Thats a lot harder to do in HA.

I could equally argue that in HA there is a larger amount of enchantment removal, Well of the Profane for example, that would give Dual Smite big problems. And by running Dual Smite well, I meant they use it effectively.

You underestimate how effective AoE damage can be in top level GvG, where coordinated teams can use body blocking to gain advantages. Common practice to body block flag runners to hold for morale... throw Air of Enchantment on the flag runner as it comes in, and smite off them. If the other team then tries to body block they are going to get rocked by smite. The same thing goes for tactics like body blocking gates to gank and so on.

Then there are many maps like Isle of Meditation where there is something of a chokepoint at the flag stand, a critical area to controll. This kind of position definately allows you to maximise the Smite damage.

Esuna · Jun 07, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Dual smite works very well in GvG - you can easily steamroll a team if you're able to snare more than 1 guy at once. And simple stated, it's very hard for boon prots to outheal the damage on a snared/knocked-down target versus a dual smite team. The downside of these teams of course is that there is very little to no defense - except maybe the snaring.

The build looks pretty decent, especially hex breaker on the smiters - to counter possible diversion spammers, I suppose? Although I'm wondering if holy veil would be a better idea, since air of enchantment smiters rarely need to use that much energy (except balth's aura), so 1 less pip of energy regen shouldn't be that much of a problem. Plus it could help protect zealot's fire since your build doesn't have any other cover enchantments on the smiters.

Red Locust · Jun 08, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

One thing that comes to mind, from personally playing against such smite teams, is the water ele's hexes will get picked off right away. They're just fuel for inspired hex, and make the spike completely obvious. That's generally the problem with smite, your two warriors are a dead giveaway to when/where the spike is coming, since they're the source of nearly all your damage.

I'd pick burning isle or jade isle as a GH, but even then it's not too difficult to kite away from a lot of the damage.

Kabale · Jun 08, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

That's why Bull's Charge would work decently. Everyone knows that you really have to kite these guys a.s.a.p.

EDIT: If you were to replace a smiter, I would go with a Channeling Ritualist as they can assist the Warriors well with things like Ancestor's Rage, Spirit Rift (snares and KDs will make this worthwhile) and perhaps even Splinter Weapon. You want to capitalize on the fact that you have AoE damage on the warriors. The Ritualist can easily swap between dealling damage and assisting in defense.

granor · Jun 12, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I would change your boon/prots to using boon signet and zelots fire to help with the split situation

XxForgexX · Jun 13, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

d'oh, someone else already commented on this. nevermind

rii · Jun 13, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Firslty, Bulls charge smite works excellently. Running the sword version: sever-gash-final works good, but I also like the axe variant: dismember-executioners-rake. The only other problem is the zealots fire doesnt have a very good cover. You can cover with rof/guardian temporarily, but its not full cover. A cheap spammable with unlinked duration like vigorous spirit fits the bill. Alternatively, some people run divine boon on the smiters. Apparantly they still dont have energy troubles, and you can recast it every minute as a reasonable way to protect zealots fire.

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Firslty, Bulls charge smite works excellently. Running the sword version: sever-gash-final works good, but I also like the axe variant: dismember-executioners-rake.

I think this limits your ability to spike too much. If you want to get a quick spike off on a monk then it will be far more powerfull with an Eviscerate. Were you to go with two Bull's Strikes, a Rake, a Shock and a Devastating hammer I think that is a fairly scary amount of snares right there anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

The only other problem is the zealots fire doesnt have a very good cover. You can cover with rof/guardian temporarily, but its not full cover. A cheap spammable with unlinked duration like vigorous spirit fits the bill. Alternatively, some people run divine boon on the smiters. Apparantly they still dont have energy troubles, and you can recast it every minute as a reasonable way to protect zealots fire.

Agreed, a cover would be nice. I really don't think Boon is the most efficient though. If your smiters have so much energy that they can happily be down a pip and still do their job, then something is wrong. Why weren't they using that pip to begin with? Energy efficiency isn't just about saving energy, but not wasting it either.