Curse

Burton2000 · Aug 30, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

With 6man HA coming up which means none of the usual things that Range spike lose to i decided to make a ranger spike build.

http://gwshack.us/454da

With 6 spaces so the obvious lack of orders i switch to penetrating attack. I tested this out against 60 80 and 100 armour targets and killed them all first spike. For the monks i will run standard RC prot and WoH monk. Think this will work this weekend?

JR · Aug 30, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Have you worked out the damage of this spike?

Burton2000 · Aug 30, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

How would i calculate the damage as theres armour penetration and the fact its not spells so not set damage.

JR · Aug 30, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Test it in a Guild Scrimmage against a real player. I am curious as to how it will fare against actual people with Vigor runes, +health mods and +health armor.

Kabale · Aug 30, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Test it in a Guild Scrimmage against a real player. I am curious as to how it will fare against actual people with Vigor runes, +health mods and +health armor.

In other words, forget about it

D Fault · Aug 30, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Against 60 armor targets a 'clean' R-Spike can drop targets with 4 rangers.

Alleji · Aug 30, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Think this will work this weekend?

Nope.

Well, it might take out some noobs that should be abundant in the lower levels, but that's about it.

Dropping orders isn't the best idea, since with 4 rangers, OoP does 204 damage, or more if the necro has a spiking skill of his own. With 3 rangers, OoP does 153 damage, about as much as a ranger on average spike.

D Fault · Aug 30, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Could run the monks with OoB and OoP...

vapor311 · Aug 30, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

My suggestion would be to drop the R/W, and add a Mes/N FC Orders + PP/SD. Swap dual back on the rangers. This would keep your damage output high and add corpse control as well. The thing that I see with spike builds with 6 man teams is that while the overall spike damage itself is going to be less, the healing will be less. I'm guessing most teams will forgo using an infuser for more GvG/TA flavored monks (ie Boon/Prots, and Blessed Light monks). Therefore a sufficently powered afterspike should punch through Boon or B-Light Reversal. Unfortunately I don't have the time to crunch the numbers but that just seems to me to be the way it'd work.

Burton2000 · Aug 30, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Just tested it 4 rangers with both spirits down does 625 damage against a 60 armour. Spiking with Penetrating followed by punishing that is.

Lord Dark Genie · Aug 30, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

The main problem I see with this build is the lack of utility and defense. 5 skills on each ranger are for spiking.

Your 2 monks will have to deal with all the hexes and/or conditions alone, while keeping the team alive.

Any degen based team will own this pretty fast IMO.

yesitsrob · Aug 30, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

i've been discussing 6 man ranger spikes for the weekend event. And I pretty much shoot them down :\ - While a clean spike is possible with 3 people and orders you just won't get clean spikes that often.

Also the build doesn't have much. if anything in the form of protecting your backline. So while you may get someone down, I think more often than not you'll find people will break your backline before enough succesful spikes have been pulled off.

Burton2000 · Aug 30, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Lets say the standard balance will have 4 characters hurting the team with at least some of those being squishies I still think this can do pritty well if you get rid of mesmers/necros and such before they can do any real harm. If the monks are decent they should be able to keep the team alive while the rangers kill. Unless they have 2 shields up that is then its pritty much screwed.

Remember with penetrating you spike fairly quickly.

Messner · Aug 31, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Lets say the standard balance will have 4 characters hurting the team with at least some of those being squishies I still think this can do pritty well if you get rid of mesmers/necros and such before they can do any real harm. If the monks are decent they should be able to keep the team alive while the rangers kill. Unless they have 2 shields up that is then its pritty much screwed.

Remember with penetrating you spike fairly quickly.

Best of luck with your two monk backline while you drop your favorable winds and winnowing so you have enough damage to kill almost 3 people with a single spike. You'd probably shit yourself if I told you that you only need the following things to drop 60AL's and 80AL's with morale boosts:

RTW, Dual, Savage
RTW, Dual, Savage
RTW, Dual, Punishing
16 Blood Orders (Probably less would still work) and a Vampiric Gaze for the followup if needed

Yes, I said it, you don't need the 4th ranger, you don't need Favorable, you don't need winnowing, all you need is, gulp, coordination and calling that goes beyond "C" and your calling of a 100AL warrior sprinting at you for your first target...But why keep a necro i mean he has no utility at all, you could have another ranger with WHIRLING!!!! zomg so leet. Another tip, whirling is bad, really bad, unless you're spirit spamming in which case I'd recommend resolve or concentration in its place the skill is easily removed with the addition of skilled monks and no I'm not talking about the ones that spam "Heal monk lfg rspike (need 18 fame for r2!)"

I'm assuming you spike Dual Punish Savage which after that much time between skill triggers isn't even a spike anymore, it's just rangers spamming overkill damage because they're not very good at hitting the same skill at the same time.

Kabale · Aug 31, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

You're also assuming that the target is completely unprotted and that every single arrow hits.

Lord Dark Genie · Aug 31, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

What's the average damage output with a 3x rtw/dual/savage + oop spike ?

ZenRgy · Aug 31, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

What's the average damage output with a 3x rtw/dual/savage + oop spike ?

Enough to kill someone.

Lord Dark Genie · Aug 31, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Enough to kill someone.

Doesn't really answer the question. (Enough to kill my monk would be 670+ dmg against 78AL)

audioaxes · Aug 31, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

marauders does more damage
also spikes are very fragile in HA... there are too many maps (burial grounds and 2 relic runs) and too many builds that give a spike team problems to attempt to use it as a fame farming build for maps prior to hoh
the point of running a spike in HA is that a spike build should have extra defensive power to hold altars but this build lacks any of this
you got 4 rangers that can interrupt offensive players and then should be able to hold off a ghost a bit but not enough to make this build worth running

Messner · Aug 31, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

Doesn't really answer the question. (Enough to kill my monk would be 670+ dmg against 78AL)

Congratulations you will miss every infuse on your party members as they die 1 by 1 after we realize you think you're smart with a lot of HP, we'll just save you till the end and melee you to death with oop up and if nubs decide they need to drop superiors out of their builds to not get owned by spike we'll just add banish to the monk bars and zomg another 150dmg on the spike WTF and zomg prot spirit/shelter doesnt work cuz they have like 12 hits + vamp gaze! WTFZOMG it's just too fast maybe if I had a monk with 100AL and 2000HP i could heal party infuse my whole team! Anyways yes, I'm mocking you and your Monk-with-a-shield pride, maybe your whole team should run dark escape assassins with recall and just teleport around to dodge arrows

@ Kabale
Yes, I'm assuming that all of my rangers aren't dumbasses shooting at obstructed targets and based on the backlines that are presumed to be prevalent in the 6 man versions of tombs, yes I am assuming that aegis won't be up and that the boon prot wont be spamming guardian on 3 people. I just think, it's what I do, if you did you'd see how valid my "assumption" really was. There's a cliche "when you assume, it makes an ass out of you and me" so sorry if my post is a little harsh, I'm only living up to the cliche.