Curse

warriorsmiley · Sep 02, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

When setting up a team for gvg or HA you normal have 1 if not both of these wards. My question here is if you only had room for one of these wards which would you choose and why.

Me personally I prefer to take ward against foes. Why? Well when you have ward against melee people tend to camp in it having poor movement and opening themselves up to aoe damage. When your sitting in a ward against melee there is a 50% chance you will get hit by a melee character(that doesnt have anything like swift chop, wildblow or something to that affect). Where as when your running away from the melee character unless he has a speed buff there is a 0 percent chance he can hit you and ward against foes slows him by 50% letting you get even further away from. Im just curious as to how other people stand on this.

icantthinkofonerightnow · Sep 02, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

For me, its Ward Against Melee by a mile.

madman420 · Sep 02, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

I think any good warder should have both of them. But if you really have to choose, I would take foes as it's a more versatile ward. Not only is it good for getting pesky warriors off your back it also can be used to slow down flag runners, relic runners, etc.

warriorsmiley · Sep 02, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Well in HA you can have both but in gvg where eles are more support characters (e/mo) for example you get pressed for space on what skills to bring and attribute setup.

LightningHell · Sep 02, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

In GvG?

I would bring both, but I think I'll opt for Melee. I like both though. :P

Patrograd · Sep 02, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I think it depends on the meta which is the better skill. Typically speaking though you want both, and I'm also getting to be quite fond of ward of stability also. If you have to pick only one, decide what it is that is causing you the biggest issue (this will probably vary depending on your players and your ladder rank) and bring the ward that solves that issue.

stueyman2099 · Sep 02, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Foes IMO. Knowing how to properly mitigate melee damage with that skill makes it more effective than ward vs melee. In HA, this is one of the most powerful tools to have on a relic run. It's a similarly awesome offensive tool when properly placed in GvG, though the effect isn't nearly as strong.

Overall though, both is preferable if you can.

Jaelen · Sep 02, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

As a monk, I'd vote Foes. Anytime a warrior is on me, I'm moving to kite the damage. Even inside a Ward vs. Melee, I'm running circles if I'm not casting. Ward vs Foes gives me an area through which I can kite quickly then spend time casting spells before I need to move back through it again.

As has also been mentioned, Foes can be used offensively as well (helping to slow the enemy flagger for easy body blocking, for one). So it won't be a wasted spell if you face a non-warrior spike team.

Though, as others have said, bring both

phasola · Sep 02, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

bring none (for HA)
get stability, that's all u really need in tombs
if u're good at blocking u dont need foes
kiting > melee

for gvg i'd say bring both, but i personally prefer foes with all the thumpers around

audioaxes · Sep 02, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

it depends on the build
foes isnt going to save you from an adrenaline spike while melee will get you wiped out by aoe

TeeGee · Sep 02, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Just take both - it's silly question.

If I had to pick one:

In HA: Foes - more versatile and better on relic runs
In GvG: Both has advantages, but I would take melee probably - cheaper and helps vs thumpers or normal balanced warrior spike.

Drewfense · Sep 02, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

hmm seems like most people say in GvG to bring both. In GvG going earth eles are really crappy. To be honest, for an ele to be effective in balanced, prodigy/second wind is a must (to power heal parties/draws/hex removal et cetera). A pure earth ele really needs to go GoE OFlame so you lose the that 10 pip monk support. What I am getting at is your ward is normally going on a fairly tight air or water ele's bar. Getting two wards will often come at the sacrifice of other valuable skills unlike in HoH where it is easy to bring two or even three. My preference is to bring ward of foes on air eles to compliment the blinding flash and ward of melee on water eles to compliment the water snares. As for choosing water versus air, that is completely dependant on the rest of the build.

Tainek · Sep 02, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

wards vs foes for general damage mitigation, but for anti spike, melee will do far more when you are shocked and spiked

warriorsmiley · Sep 03, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeGee

Just take both - it's silly question.

If I had to pick one:

In HA: Foes - more versatile and better on relic runs
In GvG: Both has advantages, but I would take melee probably - cheaper and helps vs thumpers or normal balanced warrior spike.

It seems people are missing my point. Its not a matter of bringing both as I said in the original post you normally take both. Its a matter of you only having one slot and have to choose which ward you want. Vs thumpers ward against melee isnt the thing to found in. All they have to do is spam irrestitible blow on you and make you pay for camping in the ward with the knockdown effect.

A few people see it the way i do with kiting thru it buys time, being that the melee attacker is moving slower then normal and isnt hitting you at all. Only reason i asked this question is because most of pug HA experience has been really horrid because the monks get caught not kiting getting beat on by warriors (especially iway warriors). Someone already posted a thread about kiting which is by the best way to negate any melee damage hands down. Guess i really wanted to see how many lazy casters we have out there

.

Phades · Sep 03, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

All they have to do is spam irrestitible blow on you and make you pay for camping in the ward with the knockdown effect.

The k/d effect for irresistable blow is against block, not evade. Griffon sweep is another story however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

Guess i really wanted to see how many lazy casters we have out there

.

Not all casters get the luxury of having the bulk of their skills be 1s or less in casting time.

Sol_Vie · Sep 03, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Melee shuts down assns no problem. Oh sure, you land the first hit. The second hit you miss. There goes your combo.

Melee hands down.

(Foes is good too, but only in certain scenarios.)

warriorsmiley · Sep 03, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

The k/d effect for irresistable blow is against block, not evade. Griffon sweep is another story however.

Not all casters get the luxury of having the bulk of their skills be 1s or less in casting time.

You got me on that one but even if the kd is only on blocked they still getting hit in the ward which still makes it bad to sit in when gettin hit by a thumper because they will have it on there bar. Also im saying after people cast the spell regardless if its a 1/4second cast or a 5 second cast, they will sit in the ward after the cast still getting hit by the warrior in which there is no excuse to be sitting there if your not doing anything cut out his damage output move around. Me personally playing a warrior i get more annoyed being force to walk literally in a ward against foes over and over again.

Patrograd · Sep 03, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

Me personally playing a warrior i get more annoyed being force to walk literally in a ward against foes over and over again.

Right, but each ward serves a different purpose, and this is why you really need both (if not all three)

ward vs foes is really nice becasue it creates kiting space, and it means your monks can see adrenaline spikes coming before they land. It creates time, which is a precious resource

ward vs melee however means that on that adrenaline spike there is a 50% chance that eviscerate/crushing/gash will miss. If the deep wound misses the spike fails. It also breaks up assassin spike combos. So melee is also a very strong counter to adrenaline spikes

Recently during this lock i've also been playing around with ward of stability. This removes the knockdown part of a spike, which is very common and extremely dangerous. They cant kd off target monks, they cant kd the target. I think it was calculated (by Ensign?) that a kd in a spike is worth something like 200 damage, ward stability prevents this. It also means you can run aegis and guardian against thumper spam without fear of the kd from ib.

You can spread wards around various characters. No need for them to go onto an ele primary imo, as you only need 9 or 10 earth magic to get a workable ward. so its not as hard to get lots of wards into your team.

Terra Xin · Sep 04, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

This is slightly irrelevant, but I've gotten good insight into playing a good water ele build... *thinks*

Most people seem to go with Foes, I'll go with that one as well, kiting is 100%, 50% with the other ward.

timmyw29 · Sep 04, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Definately Ward Against Foes, in both.

Before reading much of the OP I already agreed with your "camping Vs kiting" take on the Ward Against Melee.
In HA:
Ward Against Melee is awesome utility.
You can use it to slow the pesky IWAY and ViMway warriors/trappers, and you see a lot more AoE damage in HA as well. The last thing you want is people camping a Ward Against Melee. Better yet is the fact that you can use it on relic run maps to give your team an extra edge.

In GvG:
Placement is a bigger deal here, but you can use it to slow flaggers and use it to a similar effect against warriors etc.

Foes = winner.