Curse

Celab · Sep 07, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Shock Axe

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Air Magic: 2

Frenzy (Warrior other)
Eviscerate [Elite] (Axe Mastery)
Executioner's Strike (Axe Mastery)
Penetrating Blow (Axe Mastery)
Rush (Strength)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Shock (Air Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()
Hammer War

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

Frenzy (Warrior other)
Devastating Hammer [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Fierce Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Rush (Strength)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Resurrection Signet ()

Arcane Langour Mes 1:3

Cycle diversion/langour on opposing monks/warrior hate characters, ie 1 mesmer on 1 monk, the second on the other, the 3rd on the major warrior hate.

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 15 (11+4)
Domination Magic: 11 (10+1)
Inspiration Magic: 7 (6+1)
Illusion Magic: 5 (4+1)
Healing Prayers: 7

Arcane Languor [Elite] (Fast Casting)
Wastrel's Worry (Domination Magic)
Diversion (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Signet of Weariness (Domination Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Distortion (Illusion Magic)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)
emo runner

Elementalist/Monk
Level: 20

Energy Storage: 14 (10+4)
Water Magic: 10 (9+1)
Air Magic: 10 (8+2)
Healing Prayers: 9

Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
Deep Freeze (Water Magic)
Ice Spikes (Water Magic)
Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Extinguish (Protection Prayers)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)
BL Monk

Monk/Assassin
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Shadow Arts: 8

Blessed Light [Elite] (Divine Favor)
Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Spirit Bond (Protection Prayers)
Return (Shadow Arts)
Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
Basic Boon Prot

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Revealed Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
Energy Drain [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)

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Theory behind it, by cycling langour and diversion on 2/3 monks you are effectively making them choose between getting a spell diversioned, suffering exhuastion (Which always hurts on a monk) or a player dieing. Because you are taking out 3 monks, and covering each with wastrel's worry (choosed for spamability and recharge) the monks are unable to help each other. Although a mesmer with expel hexes can get rid of both langour/diversion and wastrels, if they are only running a 2 monk backline that mesmer will be a prime target for the next diversion and langour.

You may notice the 4 resurrection chants flying around in there, this is only a safety net if distortion/kiting whilst waiting to cycle, fails or They run a spike (such as FoC, but in this case the necro's will be langoured/diversioned to cut their spiking capabilitys down). Whilst the resurrection signets are recerved for monks or a mesmer if all the others are dead and the runner is too far away to come rez.

I think it has enough warrior hate, through the distortions running, and the dual guardians/PS|SB.

The general tactic is to try to steamroll the opposition by forcing their monks to make choices which will always make a punishing results (exhuastion, diversion, someone dies). If they do happen to carry enough warrior hate though (which the build relys on to kill) and do not recieve alot of damage, exhuastion and diversion will serverly hinder the saving power of the monks. Because it can get them into negative exhuastion, they will still have to recover if they die. Plus a mesmer can always langour the monk then diversion whomever is giving the most hate (warder, flash bot, anti melee mesmer, etc) and then give them some e-denial.

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Any suggestions would be helpful, If you are going to post that it won't work please say why and i will try to ammend the problem by either defending the build like a idiot or changing the build to suit the problem.

Plus, if its anything to do with hexes the monks and mesmers can always bring inspired hex instead of enchantment

TheOneMephisto · Sep 07, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

First, pump illusion to 7+1 on the mesmers and drop the healing prayers down. I'd probably drop wastrel's worry for power drain and sig of weariness for shatter enchant. Make sure they don't have any enchants on before casting languor (to make them not able to use coP0, and then interrupt any hex removal skills they attempt to cast.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 07, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Sounds kind of irritating, but MoR + Diversion guys would probably suck worse for a monk. Langour doesn't stop CoP (still fairly common on Boon Prots), and 10-20 points of Exhaustion isn't going to hurt a monk that much. For it to become seriously painful they would have to cast through it a lot.

If you want to run a build without warrior hate or off-monk defense, you need to be able to pressure your enemy and pound them into the floor before they can do the same to you. The mesmers in this build would get irritating in a prolonged fight, but a good backline could easily hold up until their offense had broken your team.

Celab · Sep 07, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I've had a guildie tell me about MoR and diversion, i asked why we did not run it and he said he'd prefer more hex defence. I am going to test it though, at one point in time when they want to run something else whilst the ladder's locked.

To meph: I like the shatter idea, but im not a fan of power drain realy, Plus wastrel's isn't there to cuase damage, its there for a quick and spammable cover hex. I would like to see a single hex as spammable as wastrel's is. CoP is a problem so i'm trying to think of a tactic to shut it down, maybe that hex which cuases the next spell to fail? I know CoP is a bitch to interupt so i wouldn't think powerdrain will be able to get it.

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I did think about running a equinox ranger in there aswell, to double langours exhaustion to a point where 1 cast is 20 energy plus its original cast, effectively making a 30/-2 set only last 2 casts, making 5 casts exhuast 100 energy. But that is only realy a possibility in HA where a runner is not needed, and a trapper is (the trapper i did design was a infuse, 2 traps, savage shot, equinox, fertile, serphants and a rez just for the anti spike and ub3r exhuastion there where most teams have the do or die attitude).

About the off monk warrior hate, distortion is enough at times to make warriors switch targets, untill where they only have a choice between warriors or the monks, and the monks will do their job if they kite and the warriors have high enough al to survive a warrior pounding on them if a monk throws a heal their way everytime they need it and healing sig isnt recarged/under concentrated fire.
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But then again im defending the build like a jack-ass, much appriecated suggestions and i think a aegis chain on 2 mesmers and the runner can be integrated in there.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 07, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celab

To meph: I like the shatter idea, but im not a fan of power drain realy, Plus wastrel's isn't there to cuase damage, its there for a quick and spammable cover hex. I would like to see a single hex as spammable as wastrel's is. CoP is a problem so i'm trying to think of a tactic to shut it down, maybe that hex which cuases the next spell to fail? I know CoP is a bitch to interupt so i wouldn't think powerdrain will be able to get it.

You don't need a cover hex if you interrupt hex removal and make sure that they don't have any enchantments to CoP off. That's where dual enchant removals come in, it makes it so that it's impossible for them to CoP.

BTW: CoP is a skill, not a spell, a skill.

Celab · Sep 07, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Why its a bitch to interupt

sir lockt · Sep 08, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

At first glance this build looks quite irritating.. but arent you focussing to much on one skill/tactic? 3 mesmers... I think a wet dream for an offensive line of your enemy...

And a split against you will make you no-where, since you have only 1 char with war-hate.

I am affraid your killing power is to slow to eliminate the enemy, before they do the same to you (so I agree with wasteland on that). Still its a nice idea and I would love to hear if it worked out!

Celab · Sep 08, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

It seems to work in HA (Changed the emo to a infuse ranger anyway, odd but it works against spikes).

My guilds still unwilling to try it to a extent, although the ladders are still locked (and hell, our hall is that lava one, where its hard to split)

Drewfense · Sep 08, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Shame > arcane languor in GvG. Sure languor will own some cruddy r200 monks, but at a decent lvl of gvg you will probably get some exhaustion initially, then monks will make the adjustment.

and infuse ranger? that says a lot about the quality of HA play (and the lack of real necro spike...)

audioaxes · Sep 08, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

i think 3 is abit over kill. You need some overwhelming dps to pressure the monks in casting through it.

Stealth Rider · Sep 08, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

/Agreed on requiring extra pressure.

What you could do (and what i was thinking of trying myself) is run a heavy hex team, replacing one mes for an Illusion Mes and one for a Curse Nec or FC Curse mes, while keeping the Languor mes virtually the same. Possibly take out eBurn for Shame, or run Inscriptions/Sig of Weariness/Sig of Humility. Could have some huge pressure there.

Celab · Sep 09, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

yeh, infuse ranger: Infuse health, dust trap, barbed trap, fertile season, oath shot, whirling defence, storm chaser, resurrection signet. Running and infusing, fun times.

Going hex heavy to apply the extra pressure to break the monks probably work, by illusion mes i pressume ineptitude, phantasm, images, kind of thing?

Ill re-design it to have more overwhelming pressure to force said monks to cast through it.

Stealth Rider · Sep 09, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

This is how i would set up the casters:

Illusion Mes

Me/Mo

10 Fastcast
14 Illusion
10 Inspiration

Images of Remorse
Conjure Phantasm
Expel Hexes*
Spirit of Failure
Mantra of Persistance
Power Drain
Drain Enchant
Res Sig

Curse Necro

N/Mo

14 Curses
10 Blood
9 Protection
rest in SOul Reaping
(not 100% on atts)

Offerign of Blood
Parasitic Bond
Feintheartedness
Shadow of Fear
Reckless Haste
Draw COnditions
Aegis
Res Sig

Domination Mes

Me/Mo

14 Fastcast
9 Domination
9 Inspiration
9 Protection
Arcane Languor*
Diversion
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech Signet
Mantra of Inscriptions
Aegis
Ressurection Chant

You can alter them as you see fit (ex. Illusion mes can be switched to a Crip Anguish mes for better splitting ability, then switching around the casters so that one mes has a fastcast Remove Hex to compensate, or try something else completely.) In any case, this team should provide enough pressure.

Have the Dom mes pick a monk and stay on him, while the Illusion spreads Conjure and Images as much as he can and the NEc shuts down Warriors and keeps yours clean.

Everything else should explain itself.

Celab · Sep 09, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Wow... didn't think anyone would give builds, just suggestions on what to put in. Thanks

Now to try and convince my guild to try it.

Question about the illusion mes though, does he use both hexes on the same target or only 1 per target?

warriorsmiley · Sep 09, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I agree with audioaxes. You need to add some more pressure in the build. I mean sure 2 warriors can train a target and kill them but the only pressure the monks are getting is coming from the 2 warriors which they will either have crip shot ranger, blindbot, warder, hexers to deal with. Sure you say you can switch to that person then you just left the monks free to heal. Also you seemed to forget most teams carry at least one signet of devotion which isnt a spell and wont get affected by langour.

Like drew said sure it will work against low rank teams that dont know to handle warrior damage. Once you hit that curve were people know how to kite warriors you will find your monks will be pressured down way before you actually affect the other team.

Stealth Rider · Sep 09, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Question about the illusion mes though, does he use both hexes on the same target or only 1 per target?

Both on each target.

Celab · Sep 09, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Rider

Both on each target.

Wouldn't that drain a hell of a lot of energy?

Xioden · Sep 09, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I always liked the way Langour made itself out to seem.. It's like the ultimate shutdown without being a shutdown. I saw its uses more in HA than GvG (As CoP can take it right off). But in HA, have a couple mesmers hit the teams monks, spike away.. They're left either with a dead character or exhausted monks. Do it another time or two and you have enough exhaustion built up to have shut their monks down for a while, or you've got their dp building up, especially if you have multiple mesmers.

If you had 3 Langour memsers do it on a spike call.. Mesmers each take a monk, everything else spikes. GvG it could be done simply with two mesmers since a lot tend to run 2 boon prots, Taking the time to CoP off Langour means they have to either heal with no big boost from boon, or cast up boon first, either way buying you time.

neoflame · Sep 10, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Why would Languor be better than Diversion?

Stealth Rider · Sep 10, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Wouldn't that drain a hell of a lot of energy?

This is why that character has all of Spirit of Failure, Power Drain, and Drain Enchantment as energy management. He does not *need* to spam both on each, as long as he is spreading enough around to overwhelm the opponents hex removal. Using both on each target covers any other hexes so that they can not be removed easily (important for Languor), and make iHexes and CoPs less effective.