Curse

lyra_song · Aug 24, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anryla

I would only like the idea of replacing kurzick armor crafter with luxon and vice versa, if PvP was not the _only_ solution. Maybe some repeatable PvE mission.

The nature of AB is that its designed to swing back and forth, with no side holding on for too long.

If you dont wanna fight AB to gain access, you wait then.

I personally would love to see it force people to AB.

Vincaro · Aug 24, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Luxon Kurzick, it doesn't matter... I just use them for their armor

But anyway I think it's fine how it is, I beleive if the town's under Luxon control those with Kurzick faction can't use the armorer anyway. I love what they say to me when I'm in a Luxon Guild Alliance but have more Kurzick faction.

"Are you trying to get me killed! It is true that Creo Talon is allied with the Luxon armada, but they know as well as I how many times you yourself have sided with us in battle."

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

What's with the constant mentality of forcing people to play GW PvP? I personally think it's horribly boring and not at all worth any time I put forth to it. Any forcing for whatever reason would further destroy my already poor opinion of it and would give cause for yet more people to request even more seperation of PvE and PvP.
The lines moving hasn't really bothered me too much. I really didn't even notice the other day till I tried to sell something was told to pretty much "go away". I just shrugged it off, went to GH and sold there, returned and bought the armor I needed.
If any change to the armor crafters was to take place, then I would be a little ticked, as it would just be more "favor-like-crap" where a PvP style of play yet again lords over PvE content...
As for "go fight for it", that's just dumb*. I didn't buy Factions to go play tag with a bunch of people I don't know, nor care to know. I bought it for some added adventures for my characters.

*This same mentality is the same crap that comes with the stupid favor system we have. Want to go do quests (PvE content) in UW/FoW? Have to sit and wait for Favor (a PvP dynamic) or "go fight for it" (a PvP dynamic) in HoH and waste my evening doing so. That's just dumb.

Phrozenflame · Aug 24, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Whats with the constant mentallity of people wanting to be spoon fed by Anet for everything? Go play other MMO and you wil lsee how much work you have to do to get your high end armours. Anet I bleieve has gotten to easy on players who sit on their fat bellies waiting for Anet to do everything for t hem. Gaining access for everything by doing nothing..that's just dumb :S.

Anet clearly told what Factions involved. If people want unlimted PvE adventures, there are dozens of good looking free online games, go do that, spend an eternity until you get a high end armor and reach lvl 250.

Phrozenflame · Aug 24, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

and know what, to kick some lazy PvErs I'm gona go do some AB and make life harder for the lazy adventurers who want all the candies spoon fed to them.

Clone · Aug 24, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I personally would love to see it force people to AB.

A game shouldn't force anyone to do anything. If players who didn't want to PvP were forced into alliance battles, you'd get complaints PvPers about all the crappy extra players and complaints from the PvEers who don't want to be there. PvP and PvE are seperate beasts, and there is no need to try to change that. I've always found the ties between the two that they've tried to make somewhat odd. Ohh, a merchant in a town doesn't like me because I don't have the right balance of faction points. *Map travels back to Kaening* Most are just little annoyances like that and are so easily overcome it makes you wonder why they bothered making them in the first place. If you start to make things more chaotic, like changing what materials you need where, I wouldn't imagine it would be well recieved by all.

Chris Blackstar · Aug 24, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

personally I could care less, however I can not understand the players with a Luxon mentality, they all seem spoiled in some way. I would like to see the rolls reversed, let the Luxons defend for a change and the Kurzicks attack, as for AB, I was just there and waited over an hour before I got tired of the message "No opponent joined, timer restated"

Ok so the Luxon side won, does that mean that they also decided to stop playing as well. When the Kurzicks owned the luxons side, they still continued playing. So what is up with Luxon players?

By the way owning a town really gives you little, as a Kurzick I can still buy 15K Kurzick armor if I want, so the Luxon victory really means nothing.

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Spoonfed? What silliness is this? I don't see anyone asking to be handed anything. What dark hole did you pull that from?

I'm against anything that limits game play for anyone.

If PvPers couldn't have access to Battle Isle unless their alliance faction farmed day in and day out to own outpost X, we would be in here hearing the PvPers complaining... as well as me, as it would be unfair.

Favor limits game play. Period. It adds nothing but useless nonsence; but it does take away game content that is playable. If the battle lines moved and took away playable game content, then I would have a problem with it as well. As it is, it doesn't.

The entire, rather un-thoughtful comment, about spoonfeeding is a complete strawman argument with no bearing on anything other than to try and distract. PvP wins and loses should have nothing to do with PvE... and vise versa.

On the favor lock out of UW/FoW, I would prefer them to make a repeatable quest that once completed, you are given a one time access to the zone. So on Wednesday night, I can complete the quest and others I know can get the quest done on their time. Then, on say Friday or Saturday night, we can all get together and do the quests and adventure.

GW has indeed taken it too easy on players. Look at the ability to make instant level 20s with max gear as a PvP only character... oh but wait! That would mean PvPers would "have" to PvE to PvP.

/knock knock, anyone there catching this yet? Seems no one wants to be forced into playing a game style they don't enjoy. Lets keep it that way.

Lastly, stop trying to send PvEers to other games. That's stupid, immature and not at all a smart move (typical behavior on the PvPer elitest in these forums lately). The "other" online games already have many more players than GW does. How bout trying to encourage players to join us in GW by encouraging open play and options, rather than restrictions and limits...? Get with the program... sheesh

Skyy High · Aug 24, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Why would this force anybody to play anything? The line changes every 3 hours, and for the most part it's spent the last couple of months just shifting back and forth east and west of the harvest temple. If on the off chance the town you need to craft your 15k kurzick armor is under luxon control when you planned on getting it, it's not like it'll be innaccessible permanently.

Oh, and WasAGuest - no one can start off by strictly playing pvp. The unlock rate is ungodly slow. So, yes, pvp-only players ARE forced to play pve, at least in order to get a char or two through the game.

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Why would this force anybody to play anything? The line changes every 3 hours, and for the most part it's spent the last couple of months just shifting back and forth east and west of the harvest temple. If on the off chance the town you need to craft your 15k kurzick armor is under luxon control when you planned on getting it, it's not like it'll be innaccessible permanently.

Currently, it doesn't. That's why it's not a problem and not a concern. Some of the above posts are requesting "locked" content when the other side owns the area. If that were to happen, it would be a problem as it locks content out yet again, and in yet another form. Not permanetly, but just like Favor, it's a major annoyance and has nothing to do with the PvE side of the game play. Therefore, it should have nothing to do with limitations on PvE.

Again, it would be no different than to say one's alliance could not join in ABs or battle in a specific area, unless their alliance owned the town or outpost nearest where the battle is taking place. That would limit (which is bad) players wanting to PvP in the ABs to those that first farm faction constantly or are just lucky enough to log in at the right time.

Neither is permanant, but both destroy the evening for the player who logs into to get or do something they had their mind set on doing.

As for the 3 hour line shift, that's wonderful if you have 5 or more hours a night. Say you log in with only 3 hours to burn. You sit and wait for 2 1/2 hours watching favor or lines to be redrawn. Finally, it happens and now you have a 1/2 hour to play. So midway through your "adventure" you now have to log off cause RL is waiting tomorrow.

Limits are good when they can be over come through like content. Limits are bad when they have nothing to do with each other. Favor and PvE or quests to be able to PvP for example.

Edit:

PvPers are forced to PvE in the same way PvEers are forced into ABs. It's simply faster to gain faction doing "the other" play style. Neither is truely forced, but we opt to go the faster easier route. I consider that a flawed system to begin with and something Anet should rethink. So, no, PvP is not "forced", it's just easier and faster same as Faction Farming. It's faster that doing those horrid repeatable quest over and over.

lyra_song · Aug 24, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I like PvP. I like PvE.

The luxons taking the kurzick's 15k armor outpost is HILARIOUS to me.The kurzicks pushing into the luxon map recently was funny too.

I think its great that the line is moving at all. I was sick of seeing a small budge the didnt shift.

I welcome the chaos, its refreshing from the monotony. Maybe those outposts should be hostile to non-allied players. XD That would be funny...you enter a town and they throw you in jail.

tomcruisejr · Aug 24, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

the kurzicks should take Cavalon!

Clone · Aug 24, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Maybe those outposts should be hostile to non-allied players. XD That would be funny...you enter a town and they throw you in jail.

Yeah, yeah! Lets play the sit in jail game! You basically would have to sit there and not do anything till your alliance won! You won't even be able to map travel. It would be AWESOME! [/sarcasm]

What in the name of Balthazar is up with people who want to LIMIT what you can do? I'm already kept of of the underworld if some dude in Korea is having a good night in a completely different part of the game. Now you guys want to lock people up based on some random decision made by their guild's officers? If this is the future of Guild Wars, many people will uninstall and never look back.

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I like PvP. I like PvE.

The luxons taking the kurzick's 15k armor outpost is HILARIOUS to me.The kurzicks pushing into the luxon map recently was funny too.

I think its great that the line is moving at all. I was sick of seeing a small budge the didnt shift.

I welcome the chaos, its refreshing from the monotony. Maybe those outposts should be hostile to non-allied players. XD That would be funny...you enter a town and they throw you in jail.

Now see, this could be made into a great amount of content without locking or limiting something from the players. It could also be made into same play style content to "earn" access without having to go and do something you don't want.
Players get jailed and have to fight their way out, and in doing so can now have free access to the town. A short quest, something fun and meaningful. Don't like the jailed option? Make it something else.
Point is, adding and not limiting or locking.

Edit: What Clone says is also true though, it should be optional and not forced. Oddly, what he describes as "You basically have to sit there..." is what many PvEers are doing now as they sit and wait for Favor to be gained.

So the limits on what the players have is already too much and too annoying.

Sir Skullcrasher · Aug 24, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I don't think it would make sense if materials needed to craft 15k kurzick armor now needs to be jade and 15k luxon armor is now amber. (if kurzick pushed into their armory outpost) But i have to agree, watching the line moves back and forth is better and more fun. This showed that peoples are doing more AB than it was before.

Andy_M · Aug 24, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I have just switched allegiance from Kurzick to Luxon. The reason ? Well, I just got my female warrior 15k Kurzick and now it's my rangers turn. If the Kurzick ranger armour didn't look so awful then I would have stayed with them. So I'm now going to grind for the luxon 15k armour.

And thats all the factions mean to me.

shadowfell · Aug 24, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

The nature of AB is that its designed to swing back and forth, with no side holding on for too long.

If you dont wanna fight AB to gain access, you wait then.

I personally would love to see it force people to AB.

Forcing people to pvp? Thats BS.

Kakumei · Aug 24, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

A game shouldn't force anyone to do anything.

Yeah, man, like Gran Turismo shouldn't force you to race. Like Soul Calibur shouldn't force you to fight people. Like Silent Hill totally shouldn't have all those locked doors; making you go find the keys is such BS I know.

Don't be ridiculous.

My Sweet Revenga · Aug 24, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The line shifting back and forth finally made this game's pve what it was marketed as - a dynamic experience where the faction battles actually MATTER.

It's not exactly making the game anymore fun. I mean, the first time the line moved deep into luxon territory, it was cool. But as days passed and the line shifted back and forth...... nobody really notices anymore because there is no significant benefit to either side. All it gives are bragging rights to whichever AB is winning and pushing the line, that's about it. Now if there were significant bonuses like say half price at an occupied town merchant or something like that. Right now it's, oh yay the line moved again. Oh no I can't use the merchant in that town. Guess I'll just zone to another town and use that merchant. nooooes

WasAGuest · Aug 24, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Yeah, man, like Gran Turismo shouldn't force you to race. Like Soul Calibur shouldn't force you to fight people. Like Silent Hill totally shouldn't have all those locked doors; making you go find the keys is such BS I know.

Don't be ridiculous.

Besides the obvious grasp at an argument here, I'm sure you understand the differences even in the game play of those listed... at least I hope. If not, PvE in RPGs (no matter if it is a CoRPG or a MMORPG) require a certains degree of openess and options to be enjoyable. Limits on content are placed by mob levels and difficulty of levels. GW moves away from the level game though, so it needs a different form of limit to give the players something to work towards. These limits need to remain achievable within the PvE game mechanic and not one of running up against another player to play tag.

Luckily, just before Factions was released O'Brien says they [Anet] had discovered many players wish to stay within the PvE aspect of the game. So this "tag playing" (or PvP) might finally move a bit further away from the PvE game and allow for a better game world, and not one so restricted by un-like game play... at least in future chapters.
See the Feb 2006 CGW article for more info on what O'Brien has to say.