Curse

Undressed · Sep 19, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

After warrior's shields have been unnecessarily nerfed by changing the reduced damage to physical only, I still wonder why you can experience the bonus mods without meeting the requirement. I believe you should have to pay a price when wanting to use warrior's gear as a non-warrior primary/secondary. The same for Paragon Gear. It just doesn't make sense imo. It creates a certain investment (attribute-wise) imbalance regarding the fact that you have to meet a offhand's requirement to get the additional 12 energy. Energy might be a bigger issue but so is +10 armour or +30 Health.

Drewfense · Sep 19, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Shock warriors can get the free +15/-1 mod and +3 energy from icons without meeting the req so it isn't a one way street.

As for the general idea, consider a monk using a shield or an icon. The mods are slightly different (the shield may have a rare +10 slashing), but in the end it comes down to +12 energy or 8 armor which is a balanced trade.

romO · Sep 19, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

If shield mods were based on requirements, then wands, swords, axes, hammers, staffs, and offhands would have to be as well. Your example of offhand giving you less energy without meeting the req is invalid, because you still get the full benefit from the mods, as you do with shields. It would also call for the creation of many, many more wands and staffs, as collector, green, and PvP caster weapons generally have a req of one attribute that isn't met, yet provides full benefit for another attribute. Otherwise, in order to use an inspiration wand, people would need to spec into domination or live with a 5/5 recharge because you would need to meet the requirements for the stated 20/20. Shields penalize people on armor for not meeting the requirement, just as anything else penalizes by damage or energy. In all cases, the rest of the mods function fully, and I don't see why shields should be the exception.

Also, I don't know that you can call 12 energy and 8 armor a balanced trade, as the only trade-off I would ever consider would be armor versus health. Casters can use both the shield and the offhand accordingly, swapping when either armor or energy is necessary, so there is no direct competition between the items.

Drewfense · Sep 19, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

but is it unbalanced? A monk with the right equipment can fairly easily get his armor up to 95 without meeting any reqs (60 +10 vs physical armor +7 physical weapon +8 armor shield +10 versus weapon type = 95). The number sounds outrageous and is almost 50% damage reduction versus physical...

But then a warrior could just use an elemental weapon cutting it down to 68 armor. Then include that the monk is now item switching which equates to about a .5-1 second delay if he needs energy to cast. I would say thats balanced.

ectospasm · Sep 19, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

my lvl 20 war with over 1 mil xp and 15k armor gets owned by lvl 11 kappa

TheOneMephisto · Sep 19, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

but is it unbalanced? A monk with the right equipment can fairly easily get his armor up to 95 without meeting any reqs (60 +10 vs physical armor +7 physical weapon +8 armor shield +10 versus weapon type = 95). The number sounds outrageous and is almost 50% damage reduction versus physical...

But then a warrior could just use an elemental weapon cutting it down to 68 armor. Then include that the monk is now item switching which equates to about a .5-1 second delay if he needs energy to cast. I would say thats balanced.

You can get more than a +7 physical weapon. I remember someone in my old guild had a sword with +5 armor inherent mod, and a +5 armor mod for +10 armor vs all.

neoflame · Sep 20, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Well, if you're, for example, boonprotting, and willing to risk using enchanted gear, you could have 60+10 (Acolyte's)+5 (Charr at the Gate)+5 (of Defense)+8 (unspecced shield)=88 armor vs. everything, or 90 armor vs. physical or elemental and 83 armor vs. the other (Shelter/Warding); +10 vs. a specific damage type. Theoretically, a monk could set up to have, while enchanted, 100AL vs. slashing damage, 90AL vs. other physical damage, and 83AL vs. elemental damage. OTOH, you do give up HSR and similar mods, and finding good +10AL vs. specific shields can get difficult... PvE grind wins again?

Zui · Sep 20, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

You can get more than a +7 physical weapon. I remember someone in my old guild had a sword with +5 armor inherent mod, and a +5 armor mod for +10 armor vs all.

That would be me, if you're talking about [TA] that is. I actualy have four of those, one with a Defense, one with a Shelter, one with a Warding, and one with a Fortitude.

The sword is available from the Pre-searing quest Charr At The Gate, and it's a sword with +5 AL while enchanted.

P.S. [RA] didn't work out huh?

Drewfense · Sep 20, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Yea I left out the +5 charr sword, +10 enchanted is still very conditional so it doesn't really change anything.

PvE grind though? The weapon sets could be purchased easily for 25k (a guildie just went through all of it). It will probably be even cheaper to do so once Nightfall comes out.

neoflame · Sep 20, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

He got a +10AL vs Slashing shield with another good mod, along with other gear, for just 25k? I need to camp Kaineng more often...

TheOneMephisto · Sep 20, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

That would be me, if you're talking about [TA] that is. I actualy have four of those, one with a Defense, one with a Shelter, one with a Warding, and one with a Fortitude.

The sword is available from the Pre-searing quest Charr At The Gate, and it's a sword with +5 AL while enchanted.

P.S. [RA] didn't work out huh?

Yea, and I think that Qweer had one too.

I never joined [RA] personally, since my playtime has been cut down drastically since school and stuff started.

Back on topic, I have to say that energy vs armor vs health isn't really a debate about which to use. You should have them all. They all have places where you'll need them, and switching around when you need each is important.

Drewfense · Sep 21, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

well to get a perfect one costs a lot (I just got a r8 +10 +30 skeleton for 55e, I probably should have paid more), but if your willing to settle for r11 +9 +28 celestial like my guildie got, it is pretty cheap.

Edit: I dont want to turn this into a pve character QQ thread, but Factions made it incredibly easy to gain experience and gold. Furthermore, they added actually useful greens (Ex. Geoffer's Bulwark for ~5k), item drops are significantly better, the market is uber cheap, and all of these things are likely to improve in Nightfall (+10 slashing/blunt +30 shields have been recommended by alpha, inscription trading, et cetera). Making a PvP ready PvE character is easier than ever and saying it is an unfair advantage given by "gold and grinding" really isn't a logical arguement anymore. It literally takes about 5 hours to get to lvl 20 in Factions and putting togethor a couple decent weapon sets doesn't take much longer if your willing to settle on greens and non perfect items.