Curse

moriz · Sep 16, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

kite, attack, kite, attack.

or just do what i do: kill their teammates, and then kill them. touchers are notorious for not bringing rez sig. the ele can easily take him down with a combination of gale and lightning orb. even with a speed buff, a toucher's DPS vs a kiting opponent is pathetic. you can probably just run in a circle, and they can't do anything about it.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 16, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

If this thread degenerates into another touch ranger discussion, it will disappear. Keep this to skill balances that have actually happened.

shardfenix · Sep 16, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Touch Rangers are overpowered? Lol?

Try making a new build and going to random arenas...get away from your gimmick staleness every once in awhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

R/P Spearmen aren't even in the game yet.

Fair enough...it was a beta. However, I doubt arenanet changed expertise since the beta happened, since it is part of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Scythes aren't even in the game at the moment.

Fair enough. Maybe we will see lower damage on scythes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It's not a bug. It's called area of effect. Welcome to Guild Wars.

It says if the arrows "hit." Arrows don't "hit" you if you stray, evade, or hide behind a wall. I think if the arrows "miss," that means they don't hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Tested, seems like rubbish to me.

You also tested infuse health a while back and said it was fine, and it still bugs for me and every infuser I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It's called bad use of Ether Prodigy.

Ether prodigy only triggers when it ends, it doesn't kill you out of nowhere when you aren't using it. I'm smart enough to know when I get killed by prodigy. I didn't even take damage when I died. 200 health, then boom. dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

[For every time I typed "...", you can assume that your remark was simply too stupid to reply to.]

So I guess that means you don't think smite, boon prots, or thumpers are broken? even though they are used by virtually every top 200 guild for gvg?

No, iway is not overpowered. It is overplayed. That's why it was nerfed in Januray. Pop into heroes ascent and all you see is iway, vim, and starburst or bloodspike trash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Blood Spike less.
As for most of his points, IWAY is worthless, boon prots got toned down, Thumpers are pretty much balanced (arguably worse than a hammer warrior).
Touch rangers are a joke.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't bloodspike anymore. I barely even play GW anymore because of all the bullsh*t builds there are. There's no room for originality unless you want to guarantee yourself a loss. Your choices in gvg are smite with thumpers or hammer warriors, or lose. Your choices in HA are iway, vim, or spike.

An unstoppable 72 dps, with life gain, with near-permanent speed boosts, and the ability to bot it without effort makes touch rangers the most broken solo build in the game. Any build that is bottable should be nerfed. It's infuriating when you're trying out an experimental build and you fight a group of 2 or more touchers and get steamrolled because you don't have 4 monks on your team to negate that kind of damage. Not to mention the only way to kill them is by spiking. Touchers can kill monks one on one, kiting or not. That alone makes them too good. I'll be expecting a JR remark detailing how bad of a monk I am.^^

Back to my original point. Nothing was fixed, and the metagame hasn't changed. That's an indication of a garbage skill balance.

JR · Sep 16, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I'm not even going to bother responding to that, as you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Ranger Spike in HA less, GvG more.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 17, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Try making a new build and going to random arenas...get away from your gimmick staleness every once in awhile.

Fair enough...it was a beta. However, I doubt arenanet changed expertise since the beta happened, since it is part of the game.

Fair enough. Maybe we will see lower damage on scythes.

It says if the arrows "hit." Arrows don't "hit" you if you stray, evade, or hide behind a wall. I think if the arrows "miss," that means they don't hit.

You also tested infuse health a while back and said it was fine, and it still bugs for me and every infuser I know.

Ether prodigy only triggers when it ends, it doesn't kill you out of nowhere when you aren't using it. I'm smart enough to know when I get killed by prodigy. I didn't even take damage when I died. 200 health, then boom. dead.

So I guess that means you don't think smite, boon prots, or thumpers are broken? even though they are used by virtually every top 200 guild for gvg?

No, iway is not overpowered. It is overplayed. That's why it was nerfed in Januray. Pop into heroes ascent and all you see is iway, vim, and starburst or bloodspike trash.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't bloodspike anymore. I barely even play GW anymore because of all the bullsh*t builds there are. There's no room for originality unless you want to guarantee yourself a loss. Your choices in gvg are smite with thumpers or hammer warriors, or lose. Your choices in HA are iway, vim, or spike.

An unstoppable 72 dps, with life gain, with near-permanent speed boosts, and the ability to bot it without effort makes touch rangers the most broken solo build in the game. Any build that is bottable should be nerfed. It's infuriating when you're trying out an experimental build and you fight a group of 2 or more touchers and get steamrolled because you don't have 4 monks on your team to negate that kind of damage. Not to mention the only way to kill them is by spiking. Touchers can kill monks one on one, kiting or not. That alone makes them too good. I'll be expecting a JR remark detailing how bad of a monk I am.^^

Back to my original point. Nothing was fixed, and the metagame hasn't changed. That's an indication of a garbage skill balance.

On Spearchuckers: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO THEM YET SO DON'T FLAME ABOUT THINGS THAT AREN'T IN THE GAME.

Infuse is still sometimes broken, I saw it myself yesterday.

I have no idea what you're talking about with ether prodigy.

Touch rangers are imbalanced, IMO. it shouldn't take a team of four to take one down when I did an alliance battle today (double faction ftw!) and if they are easily botted, that's both clever bot design and proof that they're a brainless build. Regardless, I would like to see something done to them to make them more balanced in scrub arena.

As for HA sucking: that's just the nature of the fame system, win conditions of maps, and the quality of players there.

Who in the top 100 is running smite btw?

stueyman2099 · Sep 17, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Try making a new build and going to random arenas...get away from your gimmick staleness every once in awhile.

Origionality doesn't win this game, nor any other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

So I guess that means you don't think smite, boon prots, or thumpers are broken? even though they are used by virtually every top 200 guild for gvg?

See above. Also, all three of these were toned down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Touchers can kill monks one on one, kiting or not. That alone makes them too good.

...

Neo-LD · Sep 17, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Wait this shardfenix character actually believes that touch rangers are overpowered? Wtf?

Fenix; not that I expect to convice you of anything (if you believe touch rangers are overpowered, you are probably too far gone for anyone to save)... but here goes.

Touch Rangers are laughable. They are a melee class with absolutely no snare and no spike ability. Their dps drops to horrifically low levels against anyone who even thinks the word kiting. They are rediculously easy to predict and interupt. They can allow nubs to perform well against their fellow nubs, and thats about it.

Assuming good teammates, I could monk agaist a team of touch rangers using my feet to press the buttons. Thats how bad they are.

Riotgear · Sep 17, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Origionality doesn't win this game, nor any other.

Excuse me? Every single build and team setup you see run today was "original" at some point. Staying ahead of other teams running predictable setups is half the key to winning. Originality wins EVERY game, even if it takes plenty of progressive trial and error to get there.

Quote:

...

Is it that hard to type out a real reply?

Ensign · Sep 17, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Is it that hard to type out a real reply?

"..." is shorthand for "this comment is too inane to respond to, and I feel myself getting stupider just thinking about it."

Peace,
-CxE

stueyman2099 · Sep 17, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

While being origional can give you an upper hand, it is far from the only thing that contributes to a win. The Cripshot, boon prots, shock axers, etc. are all run for a reason, becuase they are powerful. It is completley posible to win at this game using just the template PvP builds.

Edit: I think part of the problem here is you assume this game is perfectly balanced. It is not, this is the reason some builds are run alot, becuase they are simply more powerful than others.

Riotgear · Sep 17, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

While being origional can give you an upper hand, it is far from the only thing that contributes to a win. The Cripshot, boon prots, shock axers, etc. are all run for a reason, becuase they are powerful. It is completley posible to win at this game using just the template PvP builds.

Edit: I think part of the problem here is you assume this game is perfectly balanced. It is not, this is the reason some builds are run alot, becuase they are simply more powerful than others.

There was a time when boon prot wasn't even run, which should prove my point pretty concisely. I'd also qualify innovating on existing, effective builds (which is what's usually done) as original.

Red Locust · Sep 17, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Excuse me? Every single build and team setup you see run today was "original" at some point. Staying ahead of other teams running predictable setups is half the key to winning. Originality wins EVERY game, even if it takes plenty of progressive trial and error to get there.

I've never looked at it that way, but it's true. One thing that defines successful metagame-changing builds (whether on a single or team build scale) is that at the beginning there was a guild that ran the build for the first time, with great success. Surprise is a huge advantage.

stueyman2099 · Sep 17, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

My point remains though, 90% of teams don't run completley new or innovative builds. I didn't say that origionality was useless, I said it doesn't win the game.

In any case, this is a topic for another thread.

Red Locust · Sep 17, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

In any case, this is a topic for another thread.

Yes, true.

but..

WM and iQ arguably came up with the most surprises during the GWFC tourney. WM especially came up with some pretty irregular builds (life bonds, triple surgers and such) and they ended up winning, so apparently it does win games. Don't confuse originality with shitty builds, the two are very different.

Anyways, back to the topic, I'm liking the assassin buffs too, some new attack chains are already coming up (with critical strike becoming a very nice skill)

JiggyFly · Sep 17, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Personally I really think the Restoraiton line has something going for it. It's iffy with the spirits, and of course builds would have to be adapted to make spirits more readily availible. But NR/Tranq is already used alot in Ranger pressure, and I don't see it a terribly bad idea to squeak in a low priority spirit like Favorable Winds just to pump your Ritualist.

The speed of their heals has me concerned, but then again I also see some serious advantages they have over the WoH/Healing monks out there.

Thom · Sep 17, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

The point of a rebalance is to slightly nerf overplayed skills so that there is a real alternative. At the same time you try to make some unplayable skills playable.

This should lead to a negative power creep to a more diverse metagame, if done correctly. Basically, the game should be most balanced/lowest power before the next expansion is released and most powerful/least balance when new skills are added.

Enough nerfing occured to tone down some overplayed/overpowered builds, without nerfing them totally out of playablity. Something like boon-prot is a strong concept which you really want to keep in the game, but it doesn't need to be the sole standard of monking.

LightningHell · Sep 18, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I have a problem with a guildie that's related to the skill balances, so...err...

Somehow, because of the Boon Prot nerf, they said most guilds have at least one Blessed Light in their backline, and insists that a Migraine/Interrupt Mesmer is extremely effective against them. I'm not too familiar with any builds that include Factions skills, and so I'm not too sure why. But with Reversal and Hex Breaker, along with Blessed Light which might not finish casting, wouldn't it be less of a nuisance?

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post in.

JR · Sep 18, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I have a problem with a guildie that's related to the skill balances, so...err...

Somehow, because of the Boon Prot nerf, they said most guilds have at least one Blessed Light in their backline, and insists that a Migraine/Interrupt Mesmer is extremely effective against them. I'm not too familiar with any builds that include Factions skills, and so I'm not too sure why. But with Reversal and Hex Breaker, along with Blessed Light which might not finish casting, wouldn't it be less of a nuisance?

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post in.

A decent Mesmer should be able to interrupt Blessed Light or Gift, and Migraine wont do anything against Reversal or Prot Spirit/Spirit Bond/Sig Devo... etc.

So no, not worth it.

Patrograd · Sep 18, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

So no, not worth it.

In my experience migraine *is* stronger against blessed lights than boons, not because of easier interrupts (you shouldn't use migraine for that anyway, scrubby tombs trick that doesnt really work against good monks) but because it doubles the cast time on key defensive skills. Generally a blight has slower casts than a boon, and this can really help your spike get through, whereas it doesnt typically hurt a boon much at all and is a total waste of energy.

Still, it remains the case that migraine is most effective against offensive casters, especially necros, and if I was running Migraine I'd be looking for that type of caster, or best of all, the heal party spammer.

Just remember though if running a migraine based hex build that blight is a great hex removal skill and you will likely have difficulty getting key hexes to stick against a decent team.

Zuranthium · Sep 18, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

Personally I really think the Restoraiton line has something going for it.

It's totally sweet now. I ran a Rit healer last night and my guild owned -- we lost 0 matches all night long.