Curse

Thomas.knbk · Sep 15, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Why does banish do double dmg to animated creatures? didn't it do that already because it's holy dmg and theyre undead? Or does it mean ot now actually does quadripple dmg against animated?

Thom Bangalter · Sep 15, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

They still need to make Greater conflag useful, its still as shit as always.

no matter what they do, the elite ranger spirits are always going to be kind of crappy.

Clamatius · Sep 15, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

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Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

@Clamatius
and what do you think would a real fix could possibly be for ether prodigy? just wondering

That's a complicated problem and I think the thread would immediately be derailed if I tried to answer.

Thanks to the people confirming the thumper combo still works - I don't thump all that much and when I do I have TF up the whole time I'm attacking, so I wasn't sure if it made a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Why does banish do double dmg to animated creatures?

It says "summoned creatures" on the change, not animated creatures. I'd guess that means it does double damage to things like rit/ranger spirits. Don't know if fiends/etc count as summoned creatures (and would therefore presumably qualify for quad damage).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Ele only has a few skills for warrior hate, the same as the ritualist (flash and blurred, soothing and painful bonds, though with warriors being the main source of damage all defensive spirits could be considered warrior hate)

You missed shadowsong - since, if I remember correctly, it targets closest it tends to hit warriors. If you're counting flash as warrior hate then that'd be in the same bucket. {edit}Alright, I didn't remember correctly. The actual targeting algorithm is more complicated.{/edit}

Thom Bangalter · Sep 15, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

nitpick much? regardless, my point remains intact.

Clamatius · Sep 15, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

nitpick much?

Yes. Yes, I do.

But really the point I was trying to make that Shadowsong was actually pretty good. Not sure it's good any more with the extra 5e + nerf to Boon of Creation.

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regardless, my point remains intact.

I suspect the point Vermilion was trying to make was that the quality of warrior hate from Ritualists isn't as good as from Elementalists any more (Flash, Ward against Melee/Foes). Since the purely defensive Rit spirit build just went out the window, he may have a point.

shardfenix · Sep 15, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

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Update notes - September 14th

Forgot to nerf touch rangers and R/P spearmen
Forgot to nerf boon prots
Forgot to nerf bunnythumpers to the point where they aren't godly.
Forgot to nerf smite.
Forgot to nerf iway.
Forgot to nerf scythe damage.
Forgot to nerf practiced stance.
Forgot to fix a bug that causes choking gas to go through walls, blind, block, and evasion.
Introduced a new bug that causes acid traps in Imperial Isle to trigger three times more often than they are supposed to.
Introduced a new bug that deals 200 damage to flag runners out of nowhere on imperial isle.

So, in conclusion, nothing was fixed, and the metagame hasn't changed.

Clamatius · Sep 15, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

So, in conclusion, nothing was fixed, and the metagame hasn't changed.

Is this just a troll? You're complaining they didn't nerf R/P spearmen, when Nightfall isn't even out yet? And apparently that didn't count as a nerf to smite? Etc.

Zui · Sep 16, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

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Originally Posted by shardfenix

So, in conclusion, nothing was fixed, and the metagame hasn't changed.

What are you talking about? Smite got hammered... I don't know anyone who would seriously consider running it anymore.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 16, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

shard is still going on about choking gas rangers?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Blood Spike less.

As for most of his points, IWAY is worthless, boon prots got toned down, Thumpers are pretty much balanced (arguably worse than a hammer warrior).

Touch rangers are a joke.

JR · Sep 16, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Update notes - September 14th
* Forgot to nerf touch rangers and R/P spearmen

Touch Rangers are overpowered? Lol?

R/P Spearmen aren't even in the game yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf boon prots

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf bunnythumpers to the point where they aren't godly.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf smite.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf iway.

IWAY is overpowered? Lol?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf scythe damage.

Scythes aren't even in the game at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to nerf practiced stance.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Forgot to fix a bug that causes choking gas to go through walls, blind, block, and evasion.

It's not a bug. It's called area of effect. Welcome to Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Introduced a new bug that causes acid traps in Imperial Isle to trigger three times more often than they are supposed to.

Tested, seems like rubbish to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

* Introduced a new bug that deals 200 damage to flag runners out of nowhere on imperial isle.

It's called bad use of Ether Prodigy.

[For every time I typed "...", you can assume that your remark was simply too stupid to reply to.]

Riotgear · Sep 16, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Touch Rangers are overpowered? Lol?

In certain contexts (namely, RA, CMs, and AB), yes. Touch rangers are the only build I can think of that deals the vast majority of its damage through non-attack skills. Okay, and trappers, but you get the idea. That makes them immune to most control methods, which generally operate on either attacks or spells. Kiting doesn't work too well in CM/AB where the NPCs stand still, or RAs where... well, people are too retarded to kite even after I've slammed one with deep freeze.

No, it's not Anet's job to teach the player base to learn to play, and people are bringing builds with more touch hate daily (which is starting to thin the numbers), but the fact that touchers usually need a 3-on-1 gank to kill in ABs and most RA teams with two touchers hit the TAs from the win streak shows that something is broken.

JR · Sep 16, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

In certain contexts (namely, RA, CMs, and AB), yes. Touch rangers are the only build I can think of that deals the vast majority of its damage through non-attack skills. Okay, and trappers, but you get the idea. That makes them immune to most control methods, which generally operate on either attacks or spells. Kiting doesn't work too well in CM/AB where the NPCs stand still, or RAs where... well, people are too retarded to kite even after I've slammed one with deep freeze.

No, it's not Anet's job to teach the player base to learn to play, and people are bringing builds with more touch hate daily (which is starting to thin the numbers), but the fact that touchers usually need a 3-on-1 gank to kill in ABs and most RA teams with two touchers hit the TAs from the win streak shows that something is broken.

Or that people suck.

Katari · Sep 16, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

...most RA teams with two touchers hit the TAs from the win streak shows that something is broken.

So monks are overpowered because a RA team with a decent monk ends up in TA more often than not?

Zui · Sep 16, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

So monks are overpowered because a RA team with a decent monk ends up in TA more often than not?

Shard has been saying how Monks are overpowered for a long time now! Hammer Warriors, too, because they kill monks in 3 hits!

/lmao

Riotgear · Sep 16, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

So monks are overpowered because a RA team with a decent monk ends up in TA more often than not?

Monks are overpowered, but that's another discussion. :P

In contexts with random player selection though, you're much likely to see an effective monk counter simply because almost any anti-spellcaster build has some weight against them. You can easily have a team capable of taking out almost any build, but be ineffective against touchers because of how they operate.

Dragannia · Sep 16, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

See, but the thing is...no one cares about RA. It's not competitive, it's not a major base of GW, and therefore does not really matter. And FYI, Touch Rangers are a joke. People need to learn how to adapt to how other people play; it's the only way to get good. It's like saying Anet should nerf Urgoz or The Deep because it's not 'noob friendly.'

Riotgear · Sep 16, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

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Originally Posted by Dragannia

See, but the thing is...no one cares about RA. It's not competitive, it's not a major base of GW, and therefore does not really matter.

I said RA, AB, and CMs. That's a pretty healthy portion of the PVP base. If it "doesn't matter" then I'm sure no one would care if they deleted Vampiric Bite and replaced it with something else. Right? The sheer volume of complaints about them should tell you that they're pissing off a pretty large portion of the user base.

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And FYI, Touch Rangers are a joke. People need to learn how to adapt to how other people play; it's the only way to get good. It's like saying Anet should nerf Urgoz or The Deep because it's not 'noob friendly.'

You wouldn't run the Deep with a group of random people, would you? You can only control what 3 of your 11 allies bring to ABs, you can't control anyone in RA or CM. That's why the best thing to run is something which handles a broad range of opponents, the problem is this "broad range" conveniently skips over touchers with most classes and builds because they don't attack and they don't cast spells.

With something like 40 different skill lines to run, I'd rather not be restricted to packing one of 5 or so of them for "touch insurance." How exactly would you propose people "adapt" to them? Run cripshot, crippling anguish, or pack diversion every time "just in case?"

Thom · Sep 16, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Touch rangers aren't dangerous in RA if people know how to kite/snare. Touch rangers are ok for soloing npcs in AB and competitive missions, but there are plenty of builds that can solo NPCs.

People need to stop complain about touchers and bring a snare, energy drain, hex or one of several other counters. It isn't like this stuff is non-standard, anyone who gvgs should know how to use that type of skills. Instead of countering each individual type, bring counters that hurt most everyone: e-drain, interrupts snares... most of this stuff will hurt a toucher.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 16, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

With something like 40 different skill lines to run, I'd rather not be restricted to packing one of 5 or so of them for "touch insurance." How exactly would you propose people "adapt" to them? Run cripshot, crippling anguish, or pack diversion every time "just in case?"

Umm, you don't even need ANY specific skills to counter touchers, all you need are people who know hwo to kite.

Just kite, and then turn around and spike the touchers randomly, or just degen them to death.

Either way, its not like cripshots, illusion mesmers, or dom mesmers are bad builds...

Riotgear · Sep 16, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

but there are plenty of builds that can solo NPCs

How many of them can solo NPCs while under attack from other players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Umm, you don't even need ANY specific skills to counter touchers, all you need are people who know hwo to kite.

And a skill line capable of it. In AB/CM, they need to be kited and killed BEFORE they engage an NPC. Suppose I want to run, say, a non-hammer warrior, assassin, necro, non-water ele, rit, or pretty much any ranger build other than cripshot or incendiary. Then what?