Curse

Xasew · Sep 16, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

20 minutes is too fast and Knights suck balls. I personally really hate the changes.

shardfenix · Sep 16, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I am assuming these changes were to counter the VoD change, to stop VoD oriented builds dominating. Although in all honestly I don't think they will, and people will still attempt turtle builds with strong VoD potential. We shall see though.

Of course, the best way to stop VoD builds from dominating is by making VoD come 10 minutes sooner. That makes me think it wasn't their intent to weaken VoD builds.

I think the replacement of BG/archer with two knights was unnecessary. If a team is getting beaten, they should have a small advantage over the other team just to keep the game going. Most of the time, if you had to turtle in your base, you'd lose anyway. I guess they're just speeding things up.

Hiji · Sep 17, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Knights suck. 2 Assassians on the gank can have the bodyguard and both knights dead in a minute.

Patrograd · Sep 17, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiji

Knights suck. 2 Assassians on the gank can have the bodyguard and both knights dead in a minute.

This is the point I think, they are supposed to be weaker

Last night we killed both knights and bodyguard with an ele and a hammer warrior in very quick time (before they could send a reactive squad certainly), and we did it more than one battle. I dont think we would have even attempted to assault bodyguards with that lineup before the patch.

The knights also suck at VOD, its really quite funny to watch them charge out to meet the other team and die in about 3 seconds from pin down spike from the archers on the other team.

leeky baby · Sep 17, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Who ever said it was to stop turtling is right it speeds the game up because normally if you are pushed bk to the base in under 20 mins there a 90% chance your gunna lose anyway =D

I like the changes..because of the shortened VOD

Linkusmax · Sep 17, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I really Like the shortened VoD, especially with all the Spike builds out there. We just have to hold them off and distract them with splits (which kill their NPC's) and win at VoD.

I am fairly sure we would have lost against Free Lance Revolution if VoD had been 30 minutes (although its not certain).

And I KNOW we would hae lost if they had been on their home base Burning Isle.

Clinically Proven · Sep 18, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

VoD at 20minutes does come around quickly, but I like it, I think.

Knights have the worst AI, and they need to appear in the party window *grumble, grumble*

Patccmoi · Sep 18, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I like the change a lot personally. Faster paced games, and much less turtling.

Most of the time, you had a team beaten but they could easily hold you back in their base for 10-15 min before VoD (especially with the old Rt Lord... god it was hard to push a Rt Lord team turtling!!!), and you would slaughter them then. But you wasted 10-15 min for nothing.

Now turtling is much harder, as NPCs help significantly less. Knights will just rush out of there and are easy to pick off, and 3 archers + 1 bodyguard isn't that huge of an advantage if you have a good Morale advantage and flag secured behind so you can take some risks.

Ganking is slightly more dangerous now, but it's just something you must keep in mind when making your build. If anything, it balances spike teams that got much stronger again with Rt Lord mostly gone (or at least much less efficient). Easy ganking means it's risky to go for an all-out spike because you might very well get screwed up, or at least distracted until VoD where balance teams can sometimes do better.

Seems like it opens the door to more builds than the old system allowed for.

Muppet87 · Sep 18, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I love the changes.

No more 30 min wait to defeat a nub team who wont come out of the GL area after we pwn them once at flag stand.

As far as ganking goes....if u can get someone back to deal with the base threat in 2 min somthings wrong...it takes 20 seconds to run back to base with a char with a speed boost.

Anet's message with this update: Stop taking advantage of the fact that your NPCs provide more protection than your actual offense.

If you know GvG then 20 min VoD wont make much of a difference...I can pretty much tell 5 min into the match who is going to win.

20min inveitable win > 35 min inveitable win imo.

Thanks Anet! lawl.

romO · Sep 18, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muppet87

I love the changes.

No more 30 min wait to defeat a nub team who wont come out of the GL area after we pwn them once at flag stand.

As far as ganking goes....if u can get someone back to deal with the base threat in 2 min somthings wrong...it takes 20 seconds to run back to base with a char with a speed boost.

Anet's message with this update: Stop taking advantage of the fact that your NPCs provide more protection than your actual offense.

If you know GvG then 20 min VoD wont make much of a difference...I can pretty much tell 5 min into the match who is going to win.

20min inveitable win > 35 min inveitable win imo.

Thanks Anet! lawl.

I agree with all of these statements except for the one that you know who is going to win after five minutes. Many 8v8 games seem that way and they do turn out as so. However, massive swings due to morale boosts are possible, and as each team adapts to the other's strategies and build, the one who seems weaker at the outset may find a way to make the contrast in the builds work to their advantage.

Muppet87 · Sep 19, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

romO XD good guild vs good guild that is definetly true.

I must include 1 generalization in each of my posts or it isnt as fun :P

but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

However, massive swings due to morale boosts are possible, and as each team adapts to the other's strategies and build, the one who seems weaker at the outset may find a way to make the contrast in the builds work to their advantage.

Not all guilds have the collective understanding of GvG to counter or take advantage of opposing builds.

Or to identify what or who is screwing them over and how to adapt theyre tactics.

Ventius Hozza · Sep 20, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I really dislike the knights. They aggro out way too far and once both are taken out, it renders the base pretty desolate. The one bodyguard drops too easily and the archers are hopeless. I like the VoD change though, it's cool. Quicker games cancel out the necessity for gimmick builds, so wp Anet on this occasion.

Maybe Anet could review the AI on the knights so that they only stay inside a certain radius from the GL?

Just a thought.

moriz · Sep 20, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

the knights are pretty vicious at VoD though. it's basically like suddenly gaining two very pissed off warriors. they do great DPS when they have the VoD effect. that is, if they survive until VoD hits.

in my last gvg battle, our opponents were caught right outside the GL area when VoD hits. the knights and the GL were like a three-man wrecking crew once the GL came out. the added DPS was enormous.

Patrograd · Sep 21, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the knights are pretty vicious at VoD though. it's .

They shouldn't be

Basically at VOD they charge, straight into the pindown spike from half a dozen or more archers and the AOE from the BG, and out of the range of their own archers and BG.

If the other team has a few archers and BG left alive the knights die in seconds, and if they dont have any NPCs, well yes, they're alot of pressure, but you should win such situations without your knights imo

I think they are possibly the worst NPCs I have encountered in GW AI wise, but I think its deliberately so as Anet continues this fast game=more fun philosophy.

DocHollidae · Sep 21, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

The knights outside of VOD are pretty worthless imo. They don't really do much in terms of base defense since they overextend so much and really aren't much better than a footman except for gash and heal sig. During VOD those knights usually drop fairly quick, but if you can keep them up they add a ton of pressure. Especially if you have a NPC's advantage.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 22, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

<3 watching the other teams knight's get r spiked by our archers.

They are completely worthless. However, I hate bodyguards because they're scary, so I'm glad to see them gone.

Imagine two bodyguards and 20 minute vod? terrible. knights are just a minor nusciance that hit the other team in the nuts if you pick off their npcs, but the second bodyguard would still be better. though their aggro range is good in one sense, and that's at vod where they run around all over your midline.

Ventius Hozza · Sep 22, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

The bodyguards are the only useful things in the base. The archers are good, although only in large quantities.

Much like looking after children. One is fine. Many is HELL. At least they dont cripple you though.

I'd love to have the 2nd BGuard back