Curse

JR · Sep 14, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

GUILD BATTLE UPDATES

* Removed one of the Bodyguards and one of the Archers near the Guild Lords.
* Added two Knights near the Guild Lord. Knights are Warriors with the following skills: Server Artery, Gash, Healing Signet, and Power Attack.
* Adjusted the positions of Guild Hall NPCs.
* Shortened the time until "Victory or Death!" to 20 minutes.
* Modified the "Victory or Death!" effect so that it applies to all players, regardless of where they are on the map.

Discuss!

JR · Sep 14, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

First of all in general it seems like Anet was trying to make turtling harder, for the following reasons:

- Removal of a Bodyguard and an Archer.
- Addition of MELEE NPCs in the Guild Lord area, which I assume can be agro'd out very easily.
- Adjusted positioning? Can't check this one as I am in work, if anyone has any insight (or even better; screenshots) I would appreciate it.

I am assuming these changes were to counter the VoD change, to stop VoD oriented builds dominating. Although in all honestly I don't think they will, and people will still attempt turtle builds with strong VoD potential. We shall see though.

Combined with the tweaks to Ritualists it may be that turtling is now completely unviable, but I think that is hoping for too much.

Kabale · Sep 14, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Wouldn't this promote more turtle builds though? Less time to wait...

As I'm at work I can't tell you the positioning, but my guess is that the melee are placed in front of the Guild Lord, and as you said should be easy to aggro out.

Winstar · Sep 14, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

gah, i tested but I didn't take screens. The positioning in the Isle of Mediation around the turtle stand is something like

BG

GL
A A

Kn Kn

I like the shortened VOD schedual as well. I think it cuts out dead or redundant time.

fenix · Sep 14, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

The Knights aggro out REAL easy, and REAL far, so they don't hang around the Lord. That will make turtling less strong, which is a good thing

Thom Bangalter · Sep 14, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I think it MAY make VOD setups less effective; I can't say with certainty yet, but one less bodyguard at the stand during vod takes off a lot of pressure if they have more npcs than you.

2 bodyguards vs 0 is way less pressure than 1 vs 0

JR · Sep 14, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I think it MAY make VOD setups less effective; I can't say with certainty yet, but one less bodyguard at the stand during vod takes off a lot of pressure if they have more npcs than you.

2 bodyguards vs 0 is way less pressure than 1 vs 0

Assuming that you are trying to imply that VoD builds may be strong because there is less pressure when you have an NPC disadvantage now:

I disagree; VoD builds NEED to keep Bodyguards, as they are generally weak 8 vs 8. If they come out with nothing but their Guild Lord left they may still bomb all of your NPCs with AoE, but that only puts them on an even footing with you and therefore you should have the build advantage.

It opens up a lot of scope for split and gank builds, which may make for an interesting meta.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 14, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

I was trying to imply that VOD builds are weaker because you have less bodyguards to put pressure on the other team.

It's the wee hours of the morning so my posts are getting more and more muddled, but skill updates are the closest thing guild wars has to christmas morning.

Patrograd · Sep 14, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It opens up a lot of scope for split and gank builds, which may make for an interesting meta.

VOD at 20 minutes makes split and gank builds a very strong option imo, especially with a GL who appears at face glance to be less defended than he was. Pallyway zerg rush ftw :-)

Turtling clearly nerfed hard, which is no bad thing.

Will be an interesting few days as everyone throws away their balanced patient builds I guess.

sir lockt · Sep 14, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

DId some testing today in scrimmage:

- Knights agro very fast and far as described above. A sin can gank them really fast.

-VoD is rather fast, but interesting. The Knights dont provide a problem at VoD even with full npc disadvantage they are killed rather fast and easy. That one bodyguard is still the strongest point.

-Quick VoD makes it a lot easier to reach it when playing VoD builds like split. Still your advantage of these builds is less, since there is little time to gain an advantage. Metagame in VoD is a lot different, the bodyguard is (Still) the key imo.

My first experience is rather positive on these changes. Still I would like to see some agro stop on the wars when not in VoD...they are real easy to kill of. (killing time of our sin increased almost 2 mins compared to the old setup)

EDIT: as requested...positioning in Dead Hall

moriz · Sep 14, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

do you see the knights' hp bars on your party window? 'cause if you can't... that would really suck.

Rathcail · Sep 14, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

do you see the knights' hp bars on your party window? 'cause if you can't... that would really suck.

You don't. They are like archers.

moriz · Sep 14, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

damn....

they might as well not put them there, 'cause a simple pull and they're done for.

maybe anet should make their AI a bit higher, so they are resistent to pulling?

Byron · Sep 14, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Deep wound in the cage? Assuming the knights aren't AI-worthless, this could make a split-assault tricky business. They also have healing signet - GG falling spider.

I agree that less ranged power (bodyguards and archers) will make turtling less effective. That's always a nice thing.

The 20 minute mark is a welcome change IMO - makes teams get down to business instead of getting cute around the map. Also means NPCs will likely have much greater effect at VoD, since there isn't as much time to clear an enemy base out.

Farin · Sep 14, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I like this part of the update, will lead to more fun games. No one can complain about that. Expect ganking, lots of it

.

moriz · Sep 14, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

with the VoD change, builds featuring extremely fast splitting and ganking will be greatly favoured. EvIL is probably spot-dancing with excitement now.

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 14, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Deep wound in the cage? Assuming the knights aren't AI-worthless, this could make a split-assault tricky business. They also have healing signet - GG falling spider.

its fine, today in practise skirmishes i took out all npcs in both bases on wizards isle with little effort

i found the best trick for the warriors is to lure one out and whack it a bit untill it starts using heal sig (its dps isnt too bad, with shadow refuge you can live easily), as soon as it attempts heal sig hit shock falling spider twisting fangs and then use disrupting stab to stop the next heal sig, easy

Katina · Sep 14, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

VoD at 20 I dont like. Seems a bit rushed. VoD was a thing to hurry matches up in a sort when they reached 30. Seems Anet just wants to rush everything.

LightningHell · Sep 15, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

From what I hear from my guildie, solo Assassins are going to have a bit of a tough time getting through the Knights. I don't have Factions myself so I don't know about how hard is it.

Patrograd · Sep 15, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

VOD comes around very, very quickly. Not liking this change at all.