Curse

Formosa · Sep 20, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

In GvG, energy denial is obviously present. Boon Prots dedicate elites to energy management, and usually up to 3 skills in their bar are for energy management.

In HA, where a 3-monk backline, all with 4 pips of regen and channeling, is the norm, does E-Denial really have much of an effect?

I ask this because you rarely see energy denial in Hero's Ascent, aside from QZ or NR. When I say energy denial, I mean dedicated E-Surgers. These, practically a staple in any balanced GvG build, seem to have fallen from grace in Hero's Ascent. Hero's Ascent mesmers these days tend to be Psychic Distraction or Migraine Mesmers.

The only real E-Denial tactics I really see in HA is when a high rank guy or something will throw together a build with 3 E-Surgers that all focus on the same monk and time their spells so focus swapping has no effect. The other kind of e-denial you see today (increasing in popularity) is builds featuring multiple rangers, usually with condition degen pressure (apply poison, melandru's arrows) all sporting Debilitating Shot.

But then today, I watch Halls and I see iA in there (again) and I notice that in their build (it doesn't change as far as I know >_>), they have 2 (relatively weak) e-denial skills. "Fear Me!" and a single debilitating shot. I wonder how exactly their build manages so much pressure and if the e-denial plays any role at all in that.

Anyone have a take on this?

Zui · Sep 20, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

At 8 spec on an Axe or Sword guy Fear Me can give you around 20 energy denied per minute, just on one charactar. It has a nearby AoE, so against your average HA team you're probably getting around 3 people every use. It's practicaly impossible to counter Fear Me with focus swapping, just because it's small packet energy denial.

Debilitating Shot gives you almost 60 energy denied per minute. (If you just look at the recharge it's 60, but if you factor in that the skill doesn't start recharging until it's actualy fired, and it takes a short time to fire it's slightly less.) It's somewhat hard to counter Debilitating Shot with Focus Swapping, at least without loosing a fair amount of your effectiveness in doing so, which is pretty much the point of this skill anyway, to make you loose some of your effectiveness.

Just that amount of energy-denial is descent pressure, if it's used well. It helps if the other team clumps up like total scrubs and you're hitting 5+ people every time you use Fear Me, too.

Don't think all of their pressure comes from the Energy Denial though, that's only part of it. If I remember correctly, iA runs a 2 monk backline, meaning they have one more offensive type charactar to pressure you with.

Divinus Stella · Sep 20, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Well, iA have the denial for added pressure, not for a complete shutdown, removing 5 energy from a monks bar prevents 100hp~ of healing.

phasola · Sep 20, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

surge the ghost to prevent capping :B

luilui · Sep 20, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

the fear me warrior idea isnt that great imo, assuming fear me reduce 3 energy u use it twice on the same target that's 6 nrg that's about 1 orison that's about 60+30 heal, if u use that skill slot for an adrenline attack, wouldnt that be better? (Well unless that's mix spike where only 2 attacking skills are needed from the warrior.) In this case u dont need to spread ur attribute as well. If that's not a spike i think it's more likely that with the extra attacking skill (so 60-90 extra dmg) the warrior can finish off a target than draining the monks so much that they cant heal.

Sample Attack · Sep 20, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

It's all about interrupt interrupt in Hall,
Under 2 min mark, Everybody put their eyes on Ghostly two rangers, one on each ghost.
Nobody care about killing , except put their ghost on alter for capping .
Guess what ?
each other team got at least one CG or PD ...
GG

Imo E-surgers are fading out , Rangers CG taking in place or E-surger and Migraine.
Also three monks backline to two monks backline are happening.
Anyway I love this game !!!

s w o r d y · Sep 21, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

you can certainly make a strong build using combinations of surging, panic, malaise, fear me, deb shot, qz, etc.
But the reality is e denial was so overplayed that people just got better at dealing with it.

But using it as a contributor to other pressure forms (damage and interrupts) definitely makes it strong still. And given that most groups rarely pack energy support (well outside of your b spikers or whatever) it can still bring on some hurt.

Also your average mesmer is not even average

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 21, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I'm not a big fan of E-denial mesmers even in GvG. It relies too much on the enemy monks making mistakes - if their focus swapping is flawless you've used up a character for a bit of AoE pressure and some small energy loss. A single copy of Debil Shot will probably spread more e-denial around the enemy monks than sitting a surger on them, since it's harder to predict when and where the Debil shots will hit.

That's not to say Dom mesmers don't bring anything to the table. They have a lot of money skills which are handy for pressure (Blackout, Diversion) and they can contribute to a spike better than almost any other support with Shatter Enchantment. However, when I put a Dom mesmer into a build energy denial usually isn't that high on my list of reasons for doing so. Pure e-denial with a dom mesmer costs too many skillslots for not enough gain.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 21, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Mesmers are seeing less and less play these days...buff mesmers anyone?

Sample Attack · Sep 21, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Cg Ftw

master_of_puppets · Sep 21, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I think HA these days relies a lot on interrupts sure it always did but people are going for it rather then e-denial like surge since interrupting is still denying energy and theres the ghost and stuff. And most E-denial mesmers sucked as it wasnt a very easy build to play

Toxage · Sep 22, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

iA has Fear Me on Chop Chop, Energy Burn on The Custodian, and Deliberating Shot on there CG. Don't forget that iA also runs with tons of interrupts. Distracting Blow, PD, Savage, and Distracting Shot.

I have iA's build almost totally figured out ^ ^

Thom Bangalter · Sep 22, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I think energy denial is great in HA, just not with the traditional concept of e-denial: Dual surgers. I think malaise is strong in HA just because there are so many rubbish players that don't know the concept of focus swapping.

(most of the time the monks are pretty smart about it, but midline players not so much).

phasola · Sep 22, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

malaise is crap on caster cuz everyone with half a brain will swap
but on wars & rangers it's pwn

CAT · Sep 22, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

ED is still EXTREMELY effective in tombs. You run 2 mesmers that shut down 2 monks and just 3 heavy heavy offense chars. People have started running 2 mig, taint, spiteful to beat iway and vimway... I've found that ED works way better against non vim/iway teams, but you need to play well to beat them. Ive been running 2 warriors, 1 qz spammer, 2 mesmers or 2 wars, 1 earth ele, 2 mesmers and it basically can shut down their build. The only problem is you need to bring cry on both ed's so you can beat bloodspike.

Aryn Rand · Sep 22, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Surge the IWAY wars and use primal echo. Mwuahahah.