Curse

Abdul · Aug 09, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Something that frustrates me about GvG, is that it is a team game, meaning that now matter how good you are as an individual player, you will not go anywhere unless the rest of your team is equally as good. This is more or less, my current situation, and it lead me to realise that it is very hard to break into higher levels of play in this game.

There is very little in the game that recognizes the achievements of an individual in GvG, no ladder for top players in each class, no statistics for number of games played/won, no end of match statistics, etc. Fame and titles are mostly irrelevant, and the only useful title - Champion, is pretty much restricted to players in a top 100 guild. I know that things like an individual player ladder may be difficult to implement, or pointless due to the variety of different builds per class, but match statistics should not be too hard to keep track of (maybe Anet already does this to help with balancing). Even minor things like 'Most Damaging Warrior of the Match' or 'Most Efficient Healer' would do a bit towards recognizing good players and encouraging more people to GvG.

It makes me sad that GW reflects real life in the sense that, it is hard to get recognized for your skills alone, and that having a good social network is more important. I admit that socialising is not my strong point, and I have very little desire to do it, just for the sake of knowing 'important' people. Do people harass top players with ingame messages until they get guested? What I am trying to do now is trail for invite/guesting for some of the guilds on the same vent server, with the lame goal of getting my name and skills noticed by more players, and hoping that eventually I will find a guild that has the dedication to pvp I am after.

Sorry for the rather random rant. As 'good' as I think I am, I know that I have a lot more to learn, and that can only be achieved by being in a better guild. I just wanted to raise a discussion and hear about the experiences of players out there that have been stuck in a dead-end guild and were able to 'ascend' to a higher level of play.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 09, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

It's more a thing of just getting to know people. For instance, just make friends with any good players you meet. Play with them, guest for their guilds, get to know their friends and start guesting and playing with them to. Eventually, you'll meet someone who is in a good guild or will be in one soon, and you can guest with the guild through him, show them how you play, etc. Basically, it's all about contacts. Just play and make friends, and eventually you'll get there.

Otherwise, you can always go the hard way, get a group of decent players together, and just improve as a guild and climb the ladder.

Ephemeral · Aug 09, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

PvP a lot until you start getting to know people that enjoyed playing with you and vice-versa to build a friends list.

If you feel you're in a dead end guild I suggest you leave and join a PvP guild that is actively recruiting.

Morganas · Aug 09, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

One way, though it's frustrating, is to just make a guild, design some similar builds, recruit like mad, and shuffle through players and run scrim matches until you finally get 8 people who can follow directions. I've seen alot of total noobs get good after a few solid days of GvG.

Also, make sure you don't discriminate on rank or skill unlocks. Once you get a handful of players, you can faction farm in TA to get everyone up and running with the build they need, and rank seems to have no correlation at all with player skill in GvG. The goal is to find people who want the same thing as you, high end GvG, and are willing to listen.

Also, stick with the same group of 8 as much as possible. Don't over-recruit or people will feel left out, and you might have to rotate players too much, which is bad.

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Plenty of decent guilds recruit, the thread over at the Team-iQ forums is a good place to start.

If you feel that your application does not do you justice as a player, and may put off the guild in question, lie. Quite simply it's all about the tryout anyway, once they agree to give you that they will find out how good you really are regardless of what you wrote in some fairly meaningless post.

Other than that, definately try to get a network of contacts. Hang out in places like #gwp on gamesurge, quite often people there are looking for guests. You may not get in if nobody knows you, but often you will anyway if it is just a pug gvg group.

For the tryout?

1) Be fairly vocal on vent, there is nothing worse than a guy you try out and end up not really knowing anything about them. Unless you have a voice that makes peoples ears bleed, communication in a guild is key and you need to show that you can participate.

2) If you are trying out for a top 100 guild, observe them. Get used to the build they play and how they play it (particularly the classes you may be playing), to avoid having to ask any dumb questions. However, if there is still something you are unsure about, feel free to ask them anyway. Better find out before a match than halfway through when it is critical.

3) If they have forums, sign up for them. Get involved in any PvP discussion there you have an intelligent opinion on and show you know your stuff. Knowledge of the game and skill mechanics is second only to actual player skill in defining how good a player you are. If there are certain aspects of the game you are unsure of, seek out the information.

4) During the tryout don't be nervous. Concentrate on the game and admite mistakes when you make them. Soak in what sort of things the rest of the team is calling on vent (critical hexes or conditions, positioning) and try to emulate. If you like the guild and their play style you should be trying to fit in as much as possible. Between matches try chatting to the other members, get to know them. This way helps them to be sure that you fit in, and you to be sure that they they fit you.

Patrograd · Aug 09, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

. Hang out in places like #gwp on gamesurge, quite often people there are looking for guests. You may not get in if nobody knows you, but often you will anyway if it is just a pug gvg group.

.

IMHO this is the one single thing you can do that will help you get onto PUGvG teams on a regular basis and help build a decent friends list of decent players.

At this time of year especially, with the season being non-competitive and loads of people away on vacation, it is very usual for teams to look for guests on #gwp, we are most nights at the present moment with half the guild and half of everyone's friends list away sunning themselves.

Greedy Gus · Aug 09, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I would second JR's suggestion to hang out in IRC with the GW 'community'. Sure you have to get used to it, and may never learn to like how odd people are there. But that's where a whole lot of people go to look for guests on #gwp for PUG gvg or even real guilds.

I was in a bit of a dead-end guild, and someone from XoO asked for a guest on IRC and I went and played with them and actually liked the guild. Eventually I actively played with a 'ladder squad' team we put together (from playing in a big guild) and now I'm running a top 50 guild as we got better together and broke into 'high level gvg'.

So I guess my advice is two-fold. Hang out in IRC and make a name for yourself through guesting. And don't discount joining more of a large guild and working your own way into the top with a team of guildies. And always try to keep an open mind about continuing to learn from the old 'pros', running proven builds, etc.

Lobotomizing Shocks · Aug 09, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Its 50% Luck, 50% Social Skills. Of course, skills are a big factor of the game, but skill improves with either experience or personal talent in the game. So yeah, follow the advices that people posted in this thread, and you might be able to catch on with some other players who want to do the same thing as you or are looking for new people

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobotomizing Shocks

Its 50% Luck, 50% Social Skills. Of course, skills are a big factor of the game, but skill improves with either experience or personal talent in the game.

If you are talking in terms of a decent guild (i.e. top 100 material), then I would say it is a whole different ballgame. If you really wanted to assign arbitrary numbers to it, probably something like this:50% Skill, 20% Social Skills, 15% Contacts and 5% luck.

Lobotomizing Shocks · Aug 09, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Oh yeah, of course, I guess I was a bit vague on the type of guild that my numbers were headed... but I do think that social skills and luck on who you meet somewhere play a big role just to get started..

Vaga · Aug 09, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

In addition to what everyone else has said, you have to be honest with yourself about how good you really are. After this you have to look at your options.

If you are new to GvG, with basically no experience, you can do one of two things. Join a guild with people in the same situation as you, join a guild that is willing to take people and train them up. Or, if you are completely new to PvP mess about in Ta and HA.

If you have been playing for a while and your around top 300 quality you can look out for guilds around this level recruiting, apply, get a try-out, and then play with them. Most of the time these guilds are going to break into the top 100 after around a season. Or you can just continue playing until you think your good enough for a top 100 team.

If your a good player, you basically have to just try out with good guilds. In my experience even if you don't know anyone in that guild they will still try you out in the off-season.

From there everyone else has covered it.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 09, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

One of the facts of Guild Wars is that there aren't a lot of objective means to gauge your own player skill. If the skill gap is fairly wide, you often won't know what a more skilled player has that you don't - you'll just know that their team can beat your team. Until you've actually played at a given level, you really don't know what skills are required to play at that level.

While it's easy to blame lack of connections, if you've never played at a top 100 level it's possible that you're not ready to do so yet. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try out for higher-ranked guilds, but if they don't accept you recognize that it's probably not solely for social reasons. If you aren't accepted into a guild, ask honestly what they thought you could have done to improve, so when you go into your next tryout you have some new knowledge and can come off as a better player.

Otherwise, just do what JR and others suggested.

Michael of Xoo · Aug 10, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdul

As 'good' as I think I am, I know that I have a lot more to learn,

I can't tell you how much I respect that statement. Anyone who knows they still have more to learn is capable of becoming a better player. In my opinion the level of quality of GvG competition has gotten better and better over time for the sake of so many folks reaching that very same understanding.

I would suggest making an attempt at getting to know other players from other guilds as has already been mentioned. IRC is a great method for doing this in my opinion.

Also, do you currently strategically lead the guild of which you're a member in GvG? That could very well improve your own play as well as that of your team's, thus making yourself more attractive to better guilds.

Also, be aggressive about placing yourself in a guild. Do the legwork to discover more about potential guilds you could join. Search for websites, talk to members, and put yourself forth as being a good candidate for their team.

Clinically Proven · Aug 10, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is: Don't live in Australia.

We tried talking to some US guilds, but they didn't like getting up at 5am...

The European guilds were great....but then their lunch hour finished and they went back to work/school.

Korean guilds totally own, but they speak Korean, which made it kinda hard for us talk to them because we didn't understand what they were saying.

Poison Ivy · Aug 10, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

And obviously not China, the lag here is terrible.

Living Legend · Aug 10, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

you can check out Guild-Hall.net/forums under recruiting lots of guilds that are in top 100 area that recruit.

Clusmas · Aug 10, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is: Don't live in Australia.

We tried talking to some US guilds, but they didn't like getting up at 5am...

The European guilds were great....but then their lunch hour finished and they went back to work/school.

Korean guilds totally own, but they speak Korean, which made it kinda hard for us talk to them because we didn't understand what they were saying.

There are quite a few Australian and New Zealand guilds out there..

And there are also quite a few Australians who play in high level gvg guilds not based in Australia.

LightningHell · Aug 10, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Don't live in Hong Kong, you get insane lag AND you get that timezone problem.

overclocked · Aug 10, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

high level guilds dont recruit unknowns, they laugh at them, and its a shame our community is so mean.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 10, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

high level guilds dont recruit unknowns, they laugh at them, and its a shame our community is so mean.

I think that depends a lot on how it's asked. One important thing to understand is that if you've on Obs Mode, you tend to get several people a night randomly asking to join your guild because they happened to see you fighting. It simply isn't feasable to recruit these people, no matter how 'nice' you are. At best you can direct them to the recruiting section of Team-iQ, and that's assuming you aren't in the middle of a fight and have time to talk.

I think if someone responded to a guild's recruitment thread and showed them to be knowledgeable about play in the top 100, there are many guilds who would try them out even if they were relatively unknown. However, most guilds in the top 100 aren't training guilds, and if someone can't prove themselves to be a skilled player (or at least willing to learn) then the guild really isn't obligated to recruit them.