Curse

Thom Bangalter · Sep 25, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

BiP on sword or, as I saw with Electron, Axe: fine.

on a hammer warrior: probably not a good idea. They're already energy starved more than any other warrior build, they have less defense, they attack slower and hence are only super scary in spikes due to long KD.

Put bip on the other warrior, let the hammer go to town with dev or backbreaker.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 25, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I don't see the reason for running a BiP hammer or axe. If you want BiP in the build, run a sword because they work fine without an elite attack. If you take the elite out of the equation sword is almost universally better than its alternatives, IMO. You don't get neat skills like Sever Artery and Final Thrust from the other weapons, and it's only elites like Eviscerate that make up for that.

Neo-LD · Sep 25, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Sever Artery isnt a neat skill. Its the crap you put up with so you can use Gash.

A sword with a combat-slanted elite like Bulls Charge, or, in the NPE, Your All Alone are perfectly good at pressure and also very nice in splits. However, Swords with miscellaneous elites like Consume Soul, Empathic Removal, and in this case, BiP, are typically missing Bulls Strike and Shock, which makes them quite tame imo. They are, however, perfectly functional as spikers, so if thats all you want them there for, go for it.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 25, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Sever Artery isnt a neat skill. Its the crap you put up with so you can use Gash.

I think it's a stronger skill than a lot of people give it credit for. The bleeding comes out to 156 damage if it isn't removed, which is a hell of a lot for a four-adrenaline skill. While the bleeding condition is easy to remove, now that Boon has become less popular removal doesn't give the same heal. That's 5 energy they had to spend on a Mend rather than another Gift of Health. If you're running Poison or Disease those show up over Bleeding as well, so using Sever on a poisoned target often allows it to last out its duration. No monk bothers to remove all the poisons or diseases in a degeneration team, so bleeding often goes unnoticed.

It's also useful in soloing and ganking situations. Armor-ignoring degen that lasts a long time is quite powerful in duels, since condition removal is rare.

I didn't mean to rank it with Final Thrust as a skill, and obviously the synergy with Gash is a big part of why it gets run, but I don't think it's useless in itself. In a metagame where condition stacking and heavy pressure win the day, Sever isn't a useless skill. If the only thing I cared about was Deep Wound I could run an axe and do it in one skill. The primary place where Sever Artery looks like crap is in an adrenal spike, since it forces the warrior to spike with 3 skills instead of 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

A sword with a combat-slanted elite like Bulls Charge, or, in the NPE, Your All Alone are perfectly good at pressure and also very nice in splits. However, Swords with miscellaneous elites like Consume Soul, Empathic Removal, and in this case, BiP, are typically missing Bulls Strike and Shock, which makes them quite tame imo. They are, however, perfectly functional as spikers, so if thats all you want them there for, go for it.

You can do a decent warrior bar with stuff like Bull's Strike and still run a miscellaneous elite. However, to do so you usually have to drop Healing Signet. While for split purposes I'm usually fine with one Heal Sig warrior, it's not the best idea in a degen-based metagame.

Muppet87 · Sep 25, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I honestly think BiP is the most horrid idea to put onto your frontline.

BiP + frontline = rendering positioning and formation less effective.

If you really want a BiP you might want to put it on someone who can use it properly instead of putting it on a warrior with 1-2 energy regen(depending on ur wepon mods) and 26 energy.

How about a necro with BiP, spike damage, and support(such as infuse or heal other).

You get the BiP without sacraficing positioning.

rii · Sep 25, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Bip over what though.
1) It's an awesome skill which sends anyone except the hammer warrior to a higher rate of skill usage.
2) When everyone and their neighbours dog is running high pressure/conditions/debilitating shot, plus the apparantly slight increase in dom mesmers e-denial/strain is very real, and thusly countered.

Warriors are more or less the only place in the build where I can get away with it, due to sword, and frankly the other weapons non-requirement for attack elites.

Tbh, while Blood is power is a great skill, dropping any of the Me/Me/R/E for a dedicated necro is a rubbish idea, and if I can't fit it onto someone as a spare elite with little to no ramification thats the only way it's getting in. As is, it's being a pain in the ass.

http://www.gwshack.us/53523

Changed back to more or less what it was at the start. Hammer+sword = kills. The midline Me/Me/R/E is more modified than the frontline... as for punishing Bip at the front of a battle thats about as likely as anyone punishing an infuse. Technically it can happen, and probably isn't that hard to do... in actuality I haven't ever seen it happen (cept once or twice by Team Uni at their peak). Get someone with some balls and using bip is no big deal.

Dragannia · Sep 26, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

With 2 BL, I would suggest removing the Expel and replacing it with either another Warrior (though you lose Gale), or simply replacing Expel with Surge. Expel with BL is fine, though you might want to run a few games to figure out if you really need it.

LightningHell · Sep 26, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

I'd put ESurge on the Me/Mo, and Glyph on the Me/E, though needing Expel (retaining the original setup) or not is your call. Either is fine.

As Dragannia said, except I like Glyph.

rii · Sep 26, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Expel hexes/draw conditions is fairly swappable. At the moment, with a lot of conditional degen going around, you could swap expel/draw for martyr/restore conditions and remove hex. Remove hex doesn't quite cut it against hex heavy teams but it works well enough against the occasional diversion that gets tossed around, and there are more conditions around than hexes so... make the call as needed.