Curse

Legendary Shiz · Sep 24, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

NR/Tranq rolls nubs. And that explains why NUKE doesn't lose to it

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 24, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Good Mo/Mes usually run Power Drain, in my experience.

Also, I can't remember the last time we lost to NR/Tranq. Even on smite. It's just not a very strong build in my experience.

personally i like the extra enchant removal you get by running drain enchant, i've run power leak a lot in the past but the extra energy isnt needed and a spell interrupt on a monk is not really that useful at all (unlike drain enchantment, which obviously doubles as enchant removal)

plus power drain can also be tricky to get off quickly under pressure, the enemy monks wont be casting so much if they have the upper hand and you may have to push into the warriors to get into range to interrupt (same applies to drain enchant but you dont need to hang about to wait for a cast, and a warrior may also be enchanted)

as for the NR/Tranq thing, well taking no hexes or enchantments was the main point really.. you deny the enemy monks energy without having to actually do anything, i just said NR/Tranq as thats the first thing that came to mind for a build with no hexes or enchantments, in gvg admittedly its not really that powerful now everyone runs blessed light monks

Sep 25, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Like I said, unless you're a good Mo/A you will probably get steamrolled.

If you miss one of your tele's, your more than likely screwed if the meele has any clue what he's doing.

Granted I'm usually the meele char, and very rarely monk in gvg. So my opinion is possibly a little bias because of all the scrubs I've seen fail running Mo/A.

Actually, if you miss a tele(which seem to get interupted about 50 times more often than any other 1/4 casting spell i've ever used =( ) You can still deal with being on the floor and getting pounded: darkescape halves damage. Anyhow, This is slightly off topic, but adren spikes are not more successful against Mo/A. Catching them isn't energy intensive, but any noob monk can screw that up regardless of the sub...

Mostly, I find that I dearly miss CoP sometimes in teh 4v4s as conditions are teh largest problem for the Mo/A namely lots of cripples and dazed. Anyhow, Mo/A is gold and fun to play. I also always run spirit bond on my Mo/A as it can actually be used on the guild lord and have some effect whereas prot spirit limits the damage output to about 240 damage a hit...

Poison Ivy · Sep 25, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

The way I see it:

For Bprots, energy management is slightly easier than the Mo/A, very flexible, but totally screwed against Mesmers (Enchant removal).

Mo/As, also very flexible, but normally isn't the best thing you want to have since as mentioned, they arn't very good alone since their self heals can only get them so far, also Diversion can prove to be a big problem, but quick thinking and a bar of chocolate should solve it.

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Good Mo/Mes usually run Power Drain, in my experience.

I've always found that too be rather insane. I remember once against a Korean team, I was Warding, and their Monks kept interrupting my Wards. Most annoying time I've ever had, made worse by the fact that I knew I was fueling their Monks...

MaaKotka · Sep 26, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I really don't like power drain on monks because 1. when I need energy most is when I don't have time to watch if enemies are casting spells to interrupt, 2. When I have time to search interrupt targets, all i do is interrupt some occasional spell they are casting and that is what mesmers and rangers are for, so for me it is kind of wasted skill slot.

Back to the topic, I noticed today how used I am to boon prot. I missed much more spikes than I should have missed, just because I didn't realise that those blights and GoH:s were simply too slow to catch those spikes. As for Mo/A i can't say much, but Mo/Me blight and boon still need very different play styles. But as Blight I didn't find it hard to manage energy even though those were my first GvG:s with blight instead of boon.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 26, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I don't like pdrain on monks either, but as Blight you don't really have an option. Energy management WILL be an isue. Even with inspired hex, revealed hex and drain enchantment. Only in HoH where channeling solves all problems you con do without it imo

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 26, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Going back to the first post, the way i see both kinds is that a boon prot is a reactive healer and a blessed light monk is a proactive healer. The boon heals a lot more in a short time and can regain a lot of energy back fast after expending it, but the blight can heal a lot more energy efficiently over time without the amazing spike healing of the boon prot.

With boon saving an ally from a spike can be as easy as casting RoF or PS/SB when you see damage, but thats not enough on a blessed light monk. On a blessed light the safest most energy efficient way of stopping spikes is too see them coming and put PS or SB on the ally, that way the spike is doomed from the start (but takes a lot more awareness and practise to get good at).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I don't like pdrain on monks either, but as Blight you don't really have an option. Energy management WILL be an isue. Even with inspired hex, revealed hex and drain enchantment. Only in HoH where channeling solves all problems you con do without it imo

I completely disagree, even an Mo/A with no active energy regain can heal through pretty heavy pressure, a Mo/Me blessed light running only drain enchant and inspired hex (provided there are hexes and enchantments available) should, in almost any situation have very few if not no energy over time problems.

Rinobmxteen · Sep 27, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

my opinion is that runing 1 boon and 1 blessed light(if both players are ok with it), but it depends on the players skill level. Some monks can run mo/a but others cannot deal with the energy management. Personaly i like running a boon with edrain just because i have been running edrain for about 5-6 months now and i am familiar with it. Also depending on the current meta game the backline will change. when everyone was running iQ's thumpway build mo/a was a better choice for kiting but now its basicly up to the monks

fatboyslimerr · Sep 28, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I was all for the Mo/A and telekiting around like a mad korean. I thought this was awesome but when we faced a guild with dual shutdown it was gg. With only BL as hex removal and my boon prot companion diversioned and shamed, spikes were incredibly easy.

Mo/A is designed for a melee heavy meta, which I would like to say isn't the current meta. With more focus on casters and at least a few guilds running entire caster spike builds.

For me, the GoH boon prot is better than any BL monk. GoH is really the best bit about the BL as well as the massive self heal and hex removal from BL and the 4 pips of regen. But GoH really shines with boon on. For 7 energy you get a whopping 198 heal or something. Even unbooning, your still as effective as a BL if not more so as your elite is energy management, meaning you can spam your heart away and not have to pay the price of losing energy.

With more and more people running those 2-3 ranger builds, with debilitating shot spammage and the returning popularity of e-denial, for me the boon prot is the only thing that can hold upto this. Staying in your low set and using e-drain then pre-PSing in your high set is definitely the way to go

Neo-LD · Sep 28, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I disagree. GoH is at its finest when it isnt used with boon. Its too easy to overheal with Boon + GoH, plus powering GoH on a boon subracts from your other heals twice as much as on any other prot monk since losing some DF means you are losing both DF bonus and Boon power.

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 28, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

while GoH on a boon is nice, its not nice enough in my opinion to earn a place in the already tight bar of a boon prot. the healing output is comparible to that of RoF when the actual effect of RoF is taken into account, GoH is slower to cast and recharge, is more vulnarable to overhealing and since you need to let your ally get low to use it efficiently plus its slower cast time its more risky. the advantage is its still a big heal with no boon on, but while that is nice, i don't think it justifies a place on the bar.. RoF and mend condition are still usually ok for the few seconds boon isnt up.

fatboyslimerr · Sep 28, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

The point of a GoH boon prot is they can unboon monk quite effectively especially vs NR where the best option is to unboon and still monk well.

I would only use GoH with boon on someone with 30-40% health to avoid the over heal, because normally RoF is enough to counter spikes or do a nice heal + negate a bit.

Also losing 1 point in divine favour is hardly going to kill you. I usually run
14 div
9 prot
9 heal
9 insp
and this works fine. You get +45 health from div, a 96 sig of devotion so I'm not complaining. As far as justifying a place on the boon prot skill bar, its either GoH or Hex Breaker for me and its usually just how I feel but if I faced a lot of NR, I still think a boon prot with GoH is better than a BL since they can unboon and still have good healing as well as an energy management elite.

In the end it comes down to personal play style but I have to say, in a 2 boon prot backline, 1 GoH boon prot can be really useful.

clonmac · Sep 29, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Personally, I wouldn't ever spread my points that thin by going into healing as a Boon Prot. I would much rather (and I do) carry Signet of Devotion instead of using Gift of Health. If I need to heal someone who is low on health, it is most likely because they are being concentrated on as a target. In which case, using Prot Spirit and RoF along with Divine Boon is much more energy efficient that using Gift of Health.

You can see by some of the numbers below (I rounded most numbers out) that using RoF with Divine Boon against a target who is hit with larger damage hits is extremely energy efficient.

RoF Blocking hit of 70 w/Divine Boon: 140 net heal+30 DF+50 Divine Boon / 7 energy spent = 31 health/energy
RoF Blocking hit of 20 w/Divine Boon: 40 net heal+30 DF+50 Divine Boon / 7 energy spent = 17 health/energy
Gift of Health w/Divine Boon: 110 Heal+50 Boon+30 DF/7 = 27 health/energy

So the only times where Gift of Health is viable without overhealing is when the target is low on health...in which case, the slower cast time of it is going to be risky. In those circumstances, you are much better off using RoF and Prot Spirit to prevent the spike. Then if needed and once the target is safe, you can fill the health bar in with Signet of Devotion.

For instances where RoF is not efficient; for example, when a target is just losing health from random degen and not being hit with larger damage hits or if they are above 75% health, then this is where Signet of Devotion works best. Using GoH will just result in an over heal in either scenario.

I just don't see where Gift of Health would fit into a Boon Prot build.

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 29, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I can see why people would use it; so that can still heal pretty well with divine boon down. I just don't think thats a good enough reason to take it.

fatboyslimerr · Sep 30, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Tried my usual boon prot the other day with hex breaker instead of gift of health and I found that unbooning even with a normal skill bar, is still pretty pro and I had endless supplies of energy and only 1 or 2 spikes got past me.

In the end I reckon hex breaker > GoH mainly due to the rather shutdown heavy metagame, with every other game or 1 in 3 having diversion spam mesmers. Hex Breaker is gg against them :P

I suppose a BL could take hex breaker but it would be a bit of an attribute spread. I would think people will move away from the dual Mo/A to at least 1 boon prot or something similar with more anti mesmer skills. Maybe a return of spellbreaker but I severely doubt that lol.

umop apisdn · Sep 30, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Why would you put even a single point into Domination for Hex Breaker?

Dragannia · Oct 01, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

So it doesn't last an obscenely short time?

Zui · Oct 01, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

1) You most likely have some free attribute points leftover, that aren't doing anything for you.

2) Putting points into Hex Breaker increases the duration, which can increase energy effeciency. Another, yet meaningless, side effect of putting points into it is it does more damage.

Phelann · Oct 01, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The way I see it; You run a Blessed Light monk if you want more hex removal. You run a Boon Prot if you aren't that bothered.

I normally find your posts to be thoughtful and informed . . .

. . . so this one baffles the shit out of me.

You dont really think that do you?