Curse

moriz · Sep 22, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

having played both kind of monks, i find that each has its own playing style that maximize their efficiency. here's what i found:

BL monk:

it seems to me that this kind of monk requires the player to be very proactive with healing. the slower casting and longer recharge forces the player spam-heal a little more, simply because the healing will come slower. with the longer casting and recharge times, this monk cannot just coast around in the backline, and drop a few megaton heals to prevent someone from dying. this monk needs to start the heals before major damage accumulates, or else he will dig a hole which he can't climb out of easily.

boon prot:

the standard boon prot can land a heal very quickly, and can recharge quickly. it's sort of a "life saver" kind of monk, who can quickly heal a low hp teammate up to full health. it is the best monk for pulling off last-second saves.

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while there are exceptions to this generalization (for example, GoH boon prots can use both playing styles), i feel that it is essentially correct. basically, i think the BL monk is an "active" healer, and the boon prot is a "passive" healer.

what do you think?

JR · Sep 22, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

The way I see it; You run a Blessed Light monk if you want more hex removal. You run a Boon Prot if you aren't that bothered.

Wretchman Drake · Sep 22, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I'm not sure about this but how woud a divine boon BL monk work with, say high in healing for signet of rejuvination and signet of devotion with heal other and healing touch? you would figure heal other is at 180 at that point, and with at least 13 in divine and boon, my god... its a quick cast and recharge too but the energy might suck which is why I would think about using the 2 signets. would that work do you think?

TKin · Sep 22, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

When I play BL monk I try to catch spikes with protective spirit/Spirit Bond before healing with BL or GoH. This makes the damage manageable compensating for the slower cast time. Granted the BL monk must be doing more than staring at the party windows to surmise potential spikes.

Boon/prots will always be better spike healers, but are overly taxed against degen builds.

IMO boon/prot and BL monks working in conjunction are the best possible back line right now.

TeeGee · Sep 22, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

BL is more versatile, harder to play, weaker on defense (self healing), dies to energy denial.

BP has more/faster healing, lacks in hex removal, has nice self defense, easier to play, dies to enchant removal.

Both are good - all is mater of preferences and build style. Right now I've changed from BP to BL and I'm totally in love with it. That ninja skills are just so funny to play :P...

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 22, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeGee

Both are good - all is mater of preferences and build style. Right now I've changed from BP to BL and I'm totally in love with it. That ninja skills are just so funny to play :P...

While it's a lot of fun to ninja around the battlefield like Soul Wedding, I've had to conclude that the Mo/A is very build-specific. It only works if you have a lot of passive defense, like two eles with powered Heal Party. Otherwise it's not very good against spikes on targets other than itself and breaks too quickly against pressure.

I wouldn't say the same is true of all Blessed Lights, and I look at the Mo/A very differently from a Mo/Me BL monk with proper energy management. In the hands of someone who can use Power Drain, the BL Mo/Me can be a very effective build.

moriz · Sep 22, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

BL mo/me without Power Drain also works great. i use Inspired Hex for e-management, and Hex Breaker to defend myself against hexes.

speaking of Power Drain, i've recently experimented playing a GoH boon prot using Restore Condition as the elite, with Power Drain, Inspired Hex, and Revealed Hex as e-management. worked great in RA and AB. but then again, it's RA and AB

. i have no idea if i can pull off the same stuff in a GvG or not.

now back on topic:

from my experience, i found that BL monks generally cannot play the same way as a boon prot, and vice versa. if a boon prot tries to play like a BL monk, he'll run out energy. fast. if a BL monk tries to play like a boon prot, it simply won't work.

i think another way to summerize both builds is that the BL monk is a "utility monk", often with 2 hex removals, 2 condition removals, etc. the boon prot is still the "main healer monk", with faster and stronger healing.

Neo-LD · Sep 23, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

On the topic of healing styles, there is definately a difference between BL and Boon. With Boon, almost all your spells heal the same amount, and are almost all very quick. So usually, your decisions are between which skill's secondary effect you think will work best in each situation. For example, if your ally is at about 80% while under attack by a warrior, you decide: heal with RoF? Prot Spirit? Guardian? Mend? They will all heal for nearly the same amount, the choice is in what secondary effect. With BL, its different, as GoH and BL are clearly in a different league of healing power than Devotion and non-booned RoF. You have to weigh speed against power; will your ally live long enough for your more efficient healing spells to land?

Also, Boon Prots are fairly inefficient monks when compared to BL or Healing Monks. What makes them good is that they are practical monks, which will generally never allow a death unless they are out of energy or shut down beyond reason. BL Monk imo is more of an idealist monk, which, if played perfectly, will last significantly longer than a Boon. The problem is that since your spells are slower, its more easy to make mistakes with a BL, which in leads to the fact that in practice most BL monk players get far less than the maximum out of their monk. For me, having played monk so extensively for so long, I now prefer BL because imo, the cieling for maximum monk effectiveness is much higher on a BL than a Boon, and I have the confidence in my own ability to reach close to that maximum.

I used to be firmly in the Boon > all camp, but gradually Ive been pulled over so far that I in fact prefer BL monks better. In fact, I have recently found the Mo/A in particular, to be extremely effective in a variety of situations (in addition to being a ton of fun to play).

The thing that makes a Mo/A BL so powerful is the 4 pips + GoH, which is incredible efficiency for healing anyone but yourself. Factor in the relative personal invincibility that /A gives, and crossheal from another monk, and you have a great monk imo. Its hard to assign a number to the damage mitigation that /A skills give, but I am fully sure now that they are worth giving up the /Me management skills.

One other thing, and other monk players might not agree with me on it, but w/e its my own personal truth then. BL is not what makes BL monks good. What makes a BL good is GoH, Reversal, and Devotion on 4 pips. Therefore, you can put just about whatever elite you please in the BL slot and come out with a great monk build. BL turns out to be a great choice most of the time, but recently, GSS has had amazing success with 2 Mo/A BL, but changing BL on one of the monks to RC. Against the recent condition pressure fad, its been quite sexy.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 23, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

One other thing, and other monk players might not agree with me on it, but w/e its my own personal truth then. BL is not what makes BL monks good. What makes a BL good is GoH, Reversal, and Devotion on 4 pips. Therefore, you can put just about whatever elite you please in the BL slot and come out with a great monk build. BL turns out to be a great choice most of the time, but recently, GSS has had amazing success with 2 Mo/A BL, but changing BL on one of the monks to RC. Against the recent condition pressure fad, its been quite sexy.

I agree, though I would note that the Mo/A gets fairly weak on self-heals without Blessed Light. Dark Escape and Return can keep him alive for a while, but he simply doesn't have a lot to bring his health back up when the warrior finally catches him.

It also depends significantly on the rest of your build, since BL isn't great at catching spikes. If you have other damage prevention (wards, Aegis, ect) BL looks a lot more attractive. Energy denial is still a serious problem though - Debilitating Shot is difficult to focus-swap against effectively, and 10 energy is a massive hit in a build without E-management.

s w o r d y · Sep 23, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Evil ran the BLight set-up so successfully because their whole play style was so good at mitigating damage, and I think this is the single most important reason that makes it a successful set-up or not

Byron · Sep 23, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

BL is not what makes BL monks good. What makes a BL good is GoH, Reversal, and Devotion on 4 pips.

QFT - I'm always finding ways to spec more attribs into healing on my blessed light monk. GoH is a big heal for little energy at 3/4 cast, nuff said. Sig of Devotion on 4 pips of energy is both delicious and energy management in itself. Let's not forget mend condition, which has removal and healing power at low cost.

BL isn't the skill on the bar that gets used - I'd say 2/3 of the time I'm using BL on myself - it's become a superior self-heal.

moriz · Sep 23, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

i personally run 11 in healing on my BL monk, which gives me a whooping 156 (114+42) heal for 5 energy and 3/4 cast. the 4 pips of energy regen means that i can get away with only 6 in inspiration, and still not run out of energy in most situations.

Sep 23, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I originally hated blight after playing boon prot but after giving it some practice, I would take two blights over two boon prots for one thing...
The spike catching comments about blight are sort of relative... Against a soul barbs spike a quick blight can be pretty nice. Otherwise, I usually try to throw in a RoF on targets that look to get spiked before throwing out the 10 energy spirit bond. Maybe I'm just stingy, but it works for me far better than Bonding everyone until I'm drained. I have to say running the Mo/A blight is A) the most fun I've had monking and B) opened my eyes to damage mitigation. After having played the /Me I would take the energy gained from delaying or wasting adren spikes and melee pressure from the /A over any of the E-management from teh mesmer line. Now, if your guildies can't kite you could be the best Mo/A around and I don't know how you'd have much energy after 20 seconds, but I would hardly call that the Monks fault... Of course, soon the Helaing monks will be making a comeback adn this thread will be sort of obsolete...

Legendary Shiz · Sep 23, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Mo/A seems like it would be really fun to play, but it's tough to take them seriously when you see them. Unless it's a top guild, you just know that monk probably isn't going to be able to handle what's infront of him.

Especially in a 4v4 setting (I know this is GvG section, but it's still relavent to the topic) Mo/A is honestly one of the last things you go for. Because they will run out of energy, and then you go pound them. And this is relavent, because my point is a Mo/A blight monk can't be the only or even main healer on your team. With a Mo/A you rely more on your other monks. Yes, he can take pressure off himself, yes he obviously can still play a huge part in the healing role if used correctly, but to tbh when I see a Mo/A I move right along to the next Mo/Me and spike him down instead. If you have your wars chasing a tele kiting monk, and they don't catch him 1. you look foolish 2. gg.

Lord Dark Genie · Sep 23, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Mo/A seems like it would be really fun to play, but it's tough to take them seriously when you see them. Unless it's a top guild, you just know that monk probably isn't going to be able to handle what's infront of him.

Especially in a 4v4 setting (I know this is GvG section, but it's still relavent to the topic) Mo/A is honestly one of the last things you go for. Because they will run out of energy, and then you go pound them. And this is relavent, because my point is a Mo/A blight monk can't be the only or even main healer on your team. With a Mo/A you rely more on your other monks. Yes, he can take pressure off himself, yes he obviously can still play a huge part in the healing role if used correctly, but to tbh when I see a Mo/A I move right along to the next Mo/Me and spike him down instead. If you have your wars chasing a tele kiting monk, and they don't catch him 1. you look foolish 2. gg.

I disagree with the part where you say that Mo/A can't be the main healer.

In my experience, the major disadvantage of having no energy management skills, is that it's very hard to keep the Guild Lord up at VoD. Other than that, with enough team damage mitigation, dual Mo/A works well.

Neo-LD · Sep 23, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I disagree strongly that Mo/A B-Light cant be the main healer in gvg or the only healer in TA. Even without management, GoH + 4 pips provides more than enough to heal everyone but yourself. /A takes care of the self-defense problem.

Even if you never use the /A skills a single time they have still done their job, because it is their mere presence that has shooed all the damage away from you and to the rest of your party. And like I've said, B-Light monks can heal the rest of their party more than just fine.

Legendary Shiz · Sep 23, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Like I said, unless you're a good Mo/A you will probably get steamrolled.

If you miss one of your tele's, your more than likely screwed if the meele has any clue what he's doing.

Granted I'm usually the meele char, and very rarely monk in gvg. So my opinion is possibly a little bias because of all the scrubs I've seen fail running Mo/A.

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 24, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

if you are so concerned about running out of energy before the enemy monks do, then run NR/Tranq with no hexes or enchantments.. there, the enemy Mo/Me blessed light monks now also have no energy management, and you have return/dark escape for damage mitigation

Innocent · Sep 24, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

I disagree with the part where you say that Mo/A can't be the main healer.

In my experience, the major disadvantage of having no energy management skills, is that it's very hard to keep the Guild Lord up at VoD. Other than that, with enough team damage mitigation, dual Mo/A works well.

In the world of 20min VoD, the match will very rarely be decided by VoD alone, so I don't see it as that much of a problem.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 24, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar aka 'Hanz'

if you are so concerned about running out of energy before the enemy monks do, then run NR/Tranq with no hexes or enchantments.. there, the enemy Mo/Me blessed light monks now also have no energy management, and you have return/dark escape for damage mitigation

Good Mo/Mes usually run Power Drain, in my experience.

Also, I can't remember the last time we lost to NR/Tranq. Even on smite. It's just not a very strong build in my experience.