Curse

Crimson Baron · Sep 28, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I don't quite understand why people are arguing about Destructive Chop and Burst of Aggression being the replacement for Eviscerate and Frenzy. It makes no sense, Destructive Chop does more damage and clearly superior to Eviscerate while replacing frenzy with burst of aggression, by simply having a -5 energy axe and a regular 15^50 you can save enough mana to then cancel the stance, and if you bring enraging charge rather than sprint you can immediatly make up for the adrenaline lost and even build adrenaline faster inbetween spikes. The loss of adrenaline from Aggression is hardly dangerous, neither is the loss from Destructive as you can just chain Executioner's strike before Destructive. In my opinion moving 33% slower during a spike with a knocked down target is far superior to taking a 300 dmg frenzied ineptitude which will happen no matter how much skill you have. Also this skill line has far less requirement of skill as all you need to be able to do is focus swap before spiking. I say declare the debate close and accept the new metagame Shock Warrior.

stueyman2099 · Sep 28, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Yes and no.
The big thing about D-Chop is that a warrior with Eviscerate, while not as powerful as the D-chop warrior in a spike, is far more powerful outside of the spike. They have far more energy at their disposal for things like Shock, Bulls Strike, D-Blow, etc. A similar train of thought comes to mind when dealing with Burst of Agression as opposed to Frenzy. Great for spikes (or if you have no adrenal skills on your bar, such as an assassin would) but absolute garbage everywhere else. Personaly, I hate the skill, becuase I like to have an IAS sometimes when I'm not spiking. Burst of Agression forces me to use all my adrenaline (or lose it) so that I can have an IAS. This is a big issue to me. I'll add also that I ran a D-Chop warrior (with Flail and Rush) over the beta. It was fun, but I'd prefer Eviscerate+Frenzy in most situations as it remains far more flexible.

whobitz · Sep 28, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I think the main difference between D-chop and Evis.+Exec. is the visual damage taken in the spike. If I'm not mistaken ,the hp drop from deep wound comes with the damage taken right after the deep wound is applied. Therefore, with D-chop, you hit with a single, massive damage hit, and then have no follow up to get another huge hit to scare the crap out of whatever you were attacking. Evis.+Exec. gives high damage+high(er) damage and a scary drop in hp. The Exec. hit looks more like ~180 damage, based on what Exec. hit for and an extra ~100 damage from deep wound. I think I read about this in the article about Evis. vs. Cleave, but I can't find the link for it (it doesn't seem to be in Ensign's article, maybe I overlooked it).

I really don't have a side on the IAS skills as of now.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 28, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobitz

I think the main difference between D-chop and Evis.+Exec. is the visual damage taken in the spike. If I'm not mistaken ,the hp drop from deep wound comes with the damage taken right after the deep wound is applied. Therefore, with D-chop, you hit with a single, massive damage hit, and then have no follow up to get another huge hit to scare the crap out of whatever you were attacking. Evis.+Exec. gives high damage+high(er) damage and a scary drop in hp. The Exec. hit looks more like ~180 damage, based on what Exec. hit for and an extra ~100 damage from deep wound. I think I read about this in the article about Evis. vs. Cleave, but I can't find the link for it (it doesn't seem to be in Ensign's article, maybe I overlooked it).

I really don't have a side on the IAS skills as of now.

While it doesn't seem like looks would be really important, the effects of this are valid during a spike because a deep wound can't technically kill. If Deep Wound would put them below 1 HP, they still have to take damage in order to die and a heal can save them. When dealing with spike timeframes, the time it takes for the next hit to land is time when the enemy can get a crucial heal in.

If your build is based entirely around getting kills through adrenal spike, Destructive Chop makes some sense, despite this drawback. If you're hoping to apply any kind of pressure as well as being able to spike, Eviscerate is still king.

DocHollidae · Sep 28, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I tested both and D-Chop's damage was significantly higher than Evis. However losing all energy and adren really kills any versatility you as a warrior have. The usual combo of evis + executioner's isn't possible. Shock no longer becomes as viable. Speed boosts will be harder to come by if you aren't already in a stance when you D-Chop. For a one warrior spike build I think D-Chop would be possible, but in GvG versatility usually trumps everything else.

Besides you can't spam frenzy with D-Chop. I'd be confused what to do with my skill bar.

Crimson Baron · Sep 28, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

well like I said you could always place the executioner's strike before the Destructive, and often you will not be the only person spiking a person meaning that that 1 damage you may need after deep wound has been applied could easily be done by degen or another person attacking. Also a simple weapon swap can potentially save you a lot of energy. 5 at the least to counter the energy loss and switch out of Burst of Aggression

wolfy3455 · Sep 28, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

The problem with thinking like that is that if you are going to assume everything is going well, then a warrior with eviscerate would have gotten the kill too.

Tainek · Sep 28, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Baron

well like I said you could always place the executioner's strike before the Destructive, and often you will not be the only person spiking a person meaning that that 1 damage you may need after deep wound has been applied could easily be done by degen or another person attacking. Also a simple weapon swap can potentially save you a lot of energy. 5 at the least to counter the energy loss and switch out of Burst of Aggression

AFAIK Deep wound doesnt trigger on degen

And Even anouther party member attacking wont help, as perfect sync just wont happen

Evis+Ex= 2 Hit Spike
Ex+Des= 3 Hit Spike, With more damage

Elaine Donnerbalken · Oct 01, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

I wonder, did anyone try to combine destructive chop with zealous anthem (+energy when using attack skill) finsihing the combo with critical chop?

If someone tried, did he get the energy from the anthem before or after hitting and losing adrenalin+energy ?

Patrograd · Oct 01, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Burst of aggression will be really nice on shove hammer warrior imo

Etrik · Oct 01, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Evis if used on something 20% or less HP is guaranteed to kill that something in the next hit. DChop isn't.

Simple, really.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 01, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Evis if used on something 20% or less HP is guaranteed to kill that something in the next hit. DChop isn't.

Simple, really.

WTF are you talking about? They do the exact same thing except that dchop is more damage.

Read skill descriptions ftw.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 01, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

WTF are you talking about? They do the exact same thing except that dchop is more damage.

Read skill descriptions ftw.

you might want to take your own advice there, boyo.

Symbol · Oct 01, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

you might want to take your own advice there, boyo.

TheMephisto is right, the skills are mechanically identical in terms of how they do damage.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 01, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

as people have stated, Deep wound can't kill someone, you have to be able to do additional damage somehow to get them below 1 hp. Lord knows I've been in that situation.

Dzan · Oct 01, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Destructiive Chop + Normal Hit vs. Eviscerate + Executioners is pretty clearly in Eviscerate's favor. Add to that the fact that you can Shock right after the Executioners and the fact there is a debate at all becomes laughable.

Symbol · Oct 01, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

as people have stated, Deep wound can't kill someone, you have to be able to do additional damage somehow to get them below 1 hp. Lord knows I've been in that situation.

So? There's no difference between destructive and eviscerate in that regard. Eviscerate won't kill someone at 20% health anymore than destructive chop will-well actually that's wrong-destructive chop WILL kill someone because it does 115 damage before the DW.

All it means is that you're going to have to tack another hit at the end of the chain to trigger the DW.

kazz · Oct 01, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

If you have a vamp weapon, does the -3 trigger after the deep wound? If so, it would let you get more kills with D-chop

TheOneMephisto · Oct 01, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

as people have stated, Deep wound can't kill someone, you have to be able to do additional damage somehow to get them below 1 hp. Lord knows I've been in that situation.

Thom, just read what I was replying to. He was suggesting that evis would kill someone on the next hit while dchop wouldn't.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 01, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Thom, just read what I was replying to. He was suggesting that evis would kill someone on the next hit while dchop wouldn't.

the internet confuses me :S

yeah, you're right. but eviscerate is still better.