Curse

Tainek · Sep 27, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Since the latest skill balance, im Suprised to see there is Slim-No use of Ritualist Weapon Spells in high end PvP, What gives?

For example

Rt/*

12+4 Channeling
11+1 Communing
7 Spawning

Guided Weapon
Warmongering Weapon
Vital Weapon
Earthbind
Mighty Was Vorizon
Channeled Strike
Soul Twisting/Open
-Rez-

This character is a usefull one, he Keeps Vital Weapon on the two monks, an Unstripable +150 Health , Making the monks much more difficult to spike (Monk with +60Hp Weapons, No Sups, and +35Hp, and vital, they have 775 Hp, try Spiking that)

The real Golden Gem in this build is Guided weapon, used when a warrior is about to adrenal Spike, it ensures every single hit of the spike goes through, and most spikes fail because the deep wound never happens, once he has cast the weapon spell (Read: a fraction before the spike, dont want to give it away) he then uses channeled strike to Assist the spike damage (140 Lightning Damage, Similar to an Orb)

To further assist the spike, he can also keep Earthbind on the map, making that warriors shock/Assassins Horns of the Ox Keep them on the floor for 3 seconds

To Increase Pressure on the enemy team, he can also cast warmongering weapon, warmongering weapon on a Spellcaster is not funny if your recieving it

The real beauty of this build, is the elite is fairly open, for example, you could forgo soul twisting, and use for example, Expel hex , you cant keep Earthbind up all the time, so you could swap it for somthing else (prehaps dulled weapon in a hex heavy build)

This is just one build and application, but its a massivly effective adrenal Spike supporter, as well as toughening up your monks significantly

Overview of Weapon Spells:

Channeling:

Nightmare Weapon 5E 1C 10R
For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next successful attack is reduced by 10...42 Damage and steals up to 10...42 Health.

Effectivly its a 5 Energy Vamperic Gaze, not much use in PvP

Splinter Weapon 5E 1C tR
For 15..51 seconds, target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next successful attack deals +5..41 damage to all adjacent foes.

again, little use in PvP, a PvE Skill

Wailing Weapon 10E 1C 25R
For 5..10 seconds, target ally has a Wailing Weapon. Whenever the Wailing Weapon strikes an attacking foe, that foe is interrupted.

Can Effectivly shut down an Assassin/Paragon/Warrior/Dervish/Ranger Completly , but usually if attacking these, you've already dealt with the squishys, so this is unneeded

Warmonger's Weapon 10E 1C 20R
For 5...13 seconds, if target ally attacks a foe who is not attacking, that foe is interrupted.

Brutal Vs Spellcasters, at 16 Channeling it can be kept up 3/4 of the time , Destroys Blight Monks, And Ruins a booners e-managment completly, this is a monster pressure skill

Weapon of Fury (Elite) 5E 1C 8R
For 5...13 seconds, target ally gains 5...41% more adrenaline and 1 energy.

At 16 channeling, this can be kept up 7/8ths of the time on two warriors, allowing massive energy gain, and extremly frequent adrenal spikes (+50% Adrenaline at 16) a brutal pressure skill, and cheap, but not always worth the elite

Communing

Brutal Weapon 5E 1C 15R
Give target ally a Brutal Weapon for 5...17 seconds. The bearer's weapon strikes for +5...13 damage as long as the bearer is under no Enchantments.

Can only be kept on one warrior 24/7 even at 16 communing, so as a pressure skill this has little value

Guided Weapon 15E 1C 20R
For 5...10 seconds, target ally's attacks cannot be "blocked" or "evaded".

So good it should be elite, with its 20s recharge, it can be kept up half of the time, allowing it to be used both for added pressure, and for spikes, golden

Vital Weapon 5E 1C 12R
For 30 seconds, target ally has a Vital Weapon and has +40...148 maximum Health.

A very cheap weapon spell with a quick recharge, can be kept on 2 characters at all times, it cannot be stripped, extreemly usefull to really make your monks a real bitch to spike

Weapon of Quickening (Elite) 10E 2C 5R
Elite Weapon Spell. For 5..21 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Quickening, and Spells and Binding Rituals recharge 25% faster.

Trash, just trash

Xinrae's Weapon (Elite) 25E 1/4C 30R
For 4...9 seconds, target ally has Xinrae's Weapon. Whenever a foe casts a Spell on that ally, that Spell is disabled for an additional 5...13 seconds for that foe and all party members of that foe.

Nice idea, but too high an energy cost, too conditional, and too long a recharge, Next

Restoration

Resilient Weapon 10E 1C 4R

For 5..17 seconds, target ally has a Resilient Weapon. While suffering from a Hex or Condition, that ally gains +1..5 Health regeneration and +24 armor.

Extreemly usefull against heavy condition teams, can be kept on half of the team with 16 restoration, however it loses all purpost if there are no conditions fromt he enemy team

Sprit Light Weapon (Elite) 5E 1C 5R

For 10 seconds, target ally gains 1...8 Health per second and additional 1...8 Health per second if that ally is near a spirit.

Effectly allows a character to hit 21 pips of regen, but thats its only use, absolute trash

Vengeful weapon 5E 1/4C 3R
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally takes damage from foe, that ally steals up to 15..51 Health from that foe.

Effectivly a defensive vamperic gaze, while it adds some pressure on the enemy team, its healing is just too small to be worth it

Weapon of Remedy (Elite) 5E 1/4C 3R
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally takes damage from a foe, that ally steals up to 15...63 health from that foe and loses 1 condition.

Effectivly an Elite Vengeful weapon, there are still better alternatives,

Weapon of Shadow 10E 1C 25R
For 4...9 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Shadow. Whenever that ally is struck by an attack, that ally's attacker becomes Blinded for 3 seconds.

To long a recharge and too short blind for this to be worth it

Weapon of Warding 10E 2C 5R
For 5...10 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Warding that grants target ally +2...4 Health regeneration and a 50% chance to block.

Effectivly its guardian, with an extra 10% to block, and regen instead of DF bonus, too long a cast time , but can be put to good use by Me/Rt

The Good:
Warmonger's Weapon
Guided Weapon
Vital Weapon

The Average:
Weapon of Fury
Resilient Weapon
Vengeful Weapon
Weapon of Remedy
Weapon of Warding

The Plain Bad:
Nightmare Weapon
Splinter Weapon
Wailing Weapon
Weapon of Quickening
Brutal Weapon
Xinrae's Weapon
Spirit Light Weapon
Weapon of Shadow

From what i can see, the lack of weapon spell useage is due to a lack of good weapon spells, however there are 3 golden weapon spells,which synergyse well with theyre attribute lines skills, and provide a very positive effect on a team

I Predict there will be more use of weapon spells by smart groups

Frank Dudenstein · Sep 27, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

By high-end PvP, are you including HA? Because if you are, I have two comments...

Spirit Light Weapon is a very nice counter to degen builds, which are everywhere, and synergizes nicely with Weilder's Boon. Of course I am assuming that you are running lots of spirits (a requirement for running Rit Healers). Also note that the other Restoration elites suck so this may be the best choice...

Weapon of Shadow is great on the Ghostly Hero ... and if you have two rit healers with this ... he is extremely resistent to any attack pressure... Note that it also is a great way to bust seeking arrows

Thomas.knbk · Sep 27, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

This character is a usefull one, he Keeps Vital Weapon on the two monks, an Unstripable +150 Health , Making the monks much more difficult to spike (Monk with +60Hp Weapons, No Sups, and +35Hp, and vital, they have 775 Hp, try Spiking that)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10049993

JR · Sep 27, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

The problem with Weapon Rits (and Rits in general) is they are just too defensive to fill a utility role effectively. Things like Weapon of Warmongering are very, very nice... and even tempt me. One skill can't justify a character though, no matter how good it is.

If you want to run a three character backline, then a Rit works well. It prevents overlapping of Prot/Heals, and has some very nice side effects. That does beg the question; why are you running a three character backline, and are you actually going to get any kills?

If you run a two character backline, a Rit simply doesn't have the power to take the place of a Monk.

Ruben · Sep 27, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

With Nightfall skills like Wielder's Zeal and Wielder's Remedy I'm sure they'll get more play, at least in HA.

Greedy Gus · Sep 27, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Paragon seems to add more utility to a team (defense and offense, whatever is needed) than a weapon rit IMO.

master_of_puppets · Sep 27, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

With Nightfall skills like Wielder's Zeal and Wielder's Remedy I'm sure they'll get more play, at least in HA.

What about Signet of Might? hehe.....

Kabale · Sep 28, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Weapon of Quickening (Elite) 10E 2C 5R
Elite Weapon Spell. For 5..21 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Quickening, and Spells and Binding Rituals recharge 25% faster.

Trash, just trash

I kinda like the idea of giving someone else faster recharge. I'm sure your monks would appreciate it, not to mention other characters that have several long recharge skills. But it does need a very specific team build, but IMO it's not as bad as you make it sound.

Minus Sign · Sep 28, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

The problem with weapon builds, as I see it, is the same one that has always existed. You're spamming single target spells on characters and any attempt to re-apply other buffs strips the first.

You have to spread yourself across the team to remain effective in most situations. For a character that spends its time in the backline as support, this is a bad thing.

Weapon Rits are a lot easier to get around than Paragon or monk.

Tainek · Sep 28, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

I kinda like the idea of giving someone else faster recharge. I'm sure your monks would appreciate it, not to mention other characters that have several long recharge skills. But it does need a very specific team build, but IMO it's not as bad as you make it sound.

But for the vast majority of skills, the 25% difference is negligable, and with the 10 energy cost and 2s Recharge, its just not spammable

The Real Roy Keane · Sep 28, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Warmonger's weapon looks a bit overpowered to me- I can see it becoming a HA favourite.

Ima Hob0 · Sep 29, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Weapon of Quickening (Elite) 10E 2C 5R
Elite Weapon Spell. For 5..21 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Quickening, and Spells and Binding Rituals recharge 25% faster.

Trash, just trash

Xinrae's Weapon (Elite) 25E 1/4C 30R
For 4...9 seconds, target ally has Xinrae's Weapon. Whenever a foe casts a Spell on that ally, that Spell is disabled for an additional 5...13 seconds for that foe and all party members of that foe.

Nice idea, but too high an energy cost, too conditional, and too long a recharge, Next

weapon of quickening, as stated, would really help your monks. and Xinraes Weapon would be helpfull against a spike, yes the energy and recharge are a little much, the duration and a long effect would help, but it could still delay a spike for a little bit, if u can apply it to the right target, and if its used a lot.

neoflame · Sep 29, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Most skills that monks actually use aren't limited by recharge though, with few exceptions, and even then generally only for HA (Healing Seed, Spell Breaker), and setting up a bar that's dependant on having a specific ally spend its elite on you fairly often is suicide. Xinrae's Weapon has way too high an energy cost (the fact that you obviously can't run any elite EM next to it doesn't help) and is further hampered by 30r.

Riotgear · Sep 29, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Does Warmonger's end when you successfully interrupt? Or is it really as broken as the description says?

JR · Sep 29, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Does Warmonger's end when you successfully interrupt? Or is it really as broken as the description says?

It's that broken, really.

Tainek · Sep 29, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

The problem with weapon builds, as I see it, is the same one that has always existed. You're spamming single target spells on characters and any attempt to re-apply other buffs strips the first.

You have to spread yourself across the team to remain effective in most situations. For a character that spends its time in the backline as support, this is a bad thing.

Weapon Rits are a lot easier to get around than Paragon or monk.

Well for HA positioning isnt a problem, its the one place where your monks will be running around in the melee

I Still think guided weapon is underestimated for support, only blind/Miss% Hex's can stop you, neither of which are seen much in HA, my guild ran a 3 Sin, 2 Rt (one with wards, One FS) and 3 Monk HA build, and did amazingly well with it, Two Sins were given guided weapon (Read, All 6 skills connected) and the remainder was given warmongering

The 2 Guided Spikers went Straight for the SB/Ih and the RC Prot, while the Warmongering Took On the WoH, no Balanced backline had a chance, and very often all 3 monks would be wiped at once, Once Frozen went down, you had a 5 man offense with no monking support whatsoever, gg

Bloodspike was a very quick GG and Steamroll, Vim was (obviously) , IWAY was a breeze (AoD Overextend to the Necro+RT=GG Very quick), we met (a rare thing nowadays) R-Spike, lost an assassin straight off the bat but still managed a win, but after map 4 we had to stop because the RC prot had to leave

The build Hinged on guided weapon, which was near impossible to stop because the Ritualist could keep far back, and the Assassins could Use AoD after getting the weapon buff

unfortunatly we didnt get long to run it, but it worked well

Lews · Sep 29, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

If you want you could get rid of your prot monk for a rit like this

I remember iB had a spike with 2 warriors 1 fire ele 1 blood necro and a rit like this. he also had some spell that did like 90 lightning damage to anyone standing next to target ally.

Patccmoi · Oct 02, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

We used a Resto Rt in a 2 people backline in GvG and it works perfectly if you have a spirit base (need 4-5 spirits in the build). Its healing power is extremely high for the energy used, and Spirit Transfer acts as a mini-infuse that you can use on yourself. Generous was Tsungrai acts as a mini-infuse you can use even when you're in blackout. I honestly believe atm that if you have spirits around, a Resto Rt is potentially better than most monk builds. Its weakness is mobility (as healing on the run without spirits is a little worse without Spirit Transfer), so i wouldn't run 2, but i came to prefer BLight-Resto Rt to BLight-BLight or BLight-Boon. Some spells like Spirit Light, Mend Body and Soul, etc. are just so efficient overall. And you don't need any emanagement elite, so we run usually Expel Hexes (Empathic Removal is nice too. And you can even give him Restore Conditions with 12 Prot). Against pressure builds, i find that Resto Rt energy efficiency is so appreciated overall. Just that Life throwing 150 health to everyone every 30s for 10E is a blessing, and Spirit Transfer is usually enough instant healing to save spikes. Spirit Light and MB&S at 160/120 health 5E base heals actually are better than what monks have even factoring divine favor (Gift is higher, but it's other only and doesn't allow to use other healing prayers spells). In HA, a WoH with Channeling might still be better because in HA you have 3 monks and kinda infinite energy, but when energy efficiency matters Resto Rt are amazing. I'm honestly surprised not many tried them more, possibly because few actually include spirits in their builds anymore.

And as for Weapon of Quickening, we use it all the time now in a multiple Rt build. It makes Channeling Rt FAR stronger, while providing the Communing Rt with 25% faster spirit recharge, which is fine with the new cooldown on them. And against hex-heavy build, throw it on the Resto Rt so he has Expel Hexes on 6s recharge... I believe it is really powerful with the new duration as you can keep it on 3 people at all time.

In the same build we also use Brutal Weapon which is... Brutal. Use it on an Assassin, and that +16 damage every hit makes his off-dual-off-dual combo in IAS result in a straight kill from full in 4-5 sec. Or use it on something like a Frenzy Dragon Slash warrior with Prot Strike to add a lot of pressure. +16 damage every hit stacks fast. The no-enchant part doesn't matter much, you just make a build based around it, and it's still fine to use enchants like Spirit Bond. When you're in Spirit Bond, usually you're not trying to DPS, you're trying to survive.

Weapon spells are very powerful, but you need builds kinda based around Rt. Rt are very strong in every line now and can fill various roles, and having multiple just make them buff each other (more spirits, weapon spell synergy like Quickening, etc.). It's hard to just drop one Rt in the middle of a team though, because without a solid, easily renewable spirit base most Rt builds aren't efficient enough. If your Resto Rt has to provide his own spirits, he won't do his job.