Curse

Eroth · Oct 03, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

My guild is gonna start going into to gvg, and I'm the out there wacky caster guy that kicks their butts in scrimages. And I'm making a new build but I need to know if Illusion or Domination would be better in the gvg arena. The build probly won't be warrior centered, but I want something anti-melee/attack strong.

(If I pick Illusion my elite will be Ineptitude , and if I pick Domination I donno what it will be.)

And plz plz only post if u have something with either advice, or thoughts.

Permasiel · Oct 03, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

There are no "tanks" in pvp.

A "tank" is something that draws fire and endures it. Any normally constituted human brain will switch his damage to a target that cannot endure it.

Eroth · Oct 03, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

*sigh* ok then. Warrior. Now can u add any useful information?

LightningHell · Oct 03, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

That * is * useful information...

I'd say a usual Domination mesmer is versatile enough, although if you want to go more anti-melee...

Eroth · Oct 03, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

But domination doesn't have that much of a spike, it's more draw out, over time. I'm looking for something where u make them hurt them and then spike'em. Like an Empathy based build, but I don't have as many dom skills as I do Illusion.

Tark Alkerk · Oct 03, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

tip: don't spike warriors, they have 80 armour therefore spike is better suited to attacking casters.
also you will prob want to run blackout in your build due to warrriors will lose all there adr.

Dragannia · Oct 03, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Illusion is generally weak in GvG unless you're a Mesmer ganker or part of a Degen team. Ineptitude is seriously lacking, also, in GvG (142 damage to an attacking Warrior every 20 seconds...yay). Domination is generally the prefered one to use because of the lack of dependency on an Elite, allowing one to run something like Shadow Shroud, Expel Hexes or whatever.

Minus Sign · Oct 03, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Illusion is generally weak in GvG unless you're a Mesmer ganker or part of a Degen team. Ineptitude is seriously lacking, also, in GvG (142 damage to an attacking Warrior every 20 seconds...yay). Domination is generally the prefered one to use because of the lack of dependency on an Elite, allowing one to run something like Shadow Shroud, Expel Hexes or whatever.

QFT. The first question you need to be asking is not how to counter one charactter, but how does your team plan to fight all 8. Then you can mold your build around their strengths or (thinking balance) help shore up their weak points.

To answer the OPs questions: Dom is FotM for mesmers. But that can and does change. I don't run warriors often, but most times when I'm healing they're complaining more about the ele snares/blindbot, etc than what the mes is doing to them. IMHO, Mesmers are more suited to taking on castors. Diversion on monks ftw.

Welcome to GvG.

Yanman.be · Oct 03, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

I'd say domination: Blackout > adrenaline.

Dragannia · Oct 03, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Generally, in a balanced GvG build, a Mesmer has 2 roles: the generic flagstand Mesmer in all its glory and the gank Mesmer. The flagstand Mesmer has 3 main uses: support for spiking (the most common skill used here is Shatter Enchantment, as well as Gale, and Blackout), utility (including the Resmer) and generic damage/pressure (with Dom, Diversion, Blackout, E-Surge/Burn, etc, with an Illusion build, general degen skills like Images of Remorse).

As a gank Mesmer, you're generally Illusions with a snare skill (Crippling Anguish is used most often here, to both slow enemy runners, provide degen, and to snare enemy Warriors chasing you while you're trying to run away). They generally go in solo, or in a duo, to kill as many NPCs as possible (I won't go too far in here because then you have to go into the split strategy and theory, and that's too bothersome and OT for this thread). Generally, they're a bit weaker at the flagstand, and this is because usually one or two degen hex skills are not enough to bother most teams. Most teams don't run degen but may run a gank Mesmer and thus at the flagstand the gank Mesmer is isolated as a degenner and although might be able to snare with Crippling Anguish once in a while, he is generally weaker than a Dom. When running a gank Mesmer you probably want to be either ganking or counter-ganking.

Generally, for spike support, a Mesmer wants to be doing one of two things, or both:

1. Shutting down an enemy spellcaster, such as an enemy Monk (for example, if spiking a Monk, you might shutdown the other Monk), in order to let the Warriors and whatever else carry on with the spike. Blackout and Gale, and Diversion, are used most extensively in this area. Blackout, however, shuts yourself out for a possibility of aiding the spike, but the duration is so long (6 seconds is usually plenty of time) that this rarely matters. Gale is also used, because in reality a good team should be able to spike down a target in 3 seconds without much difficulty.

2. Dealing damage in the spike, while doing other things at the same time. Energy Burn, Shatter Enchantment, and now the Nightfall skill Spiritual Pain and such are the primary damage skills used to assist in a Spike. Sometimes, Shadow Shroud is also used to cover a spike. Basically, experiment to see what kind of skills you prefer. Shatter Enchantment is especially powerful because of the ability to remove an Enchantment (such as Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, etc.) that can screw up a spike, as well as dealing around 100 armour-ignoring damage.

A Mesmer can also be configured to have a heavy utlity role in the party. While Elementalists can usually do more in that role a Mesmer can fill different shoes. While Elementalist flagstand support usually takes the role of Warding and Heal Party spamming, Mesmers usually use Expel Hexes as a primary support skill because of the lack of dependency on an Elite that a Domination Mesmer has. This is the primary reason why a lot of people favour the Domination Mesmer. Draw Conditions is also another useful skill for a Mesmer to use, as it can do last minute Draws of Blind off Warriors for spiking, and last minute Draws of Deep Wound to save teammates from spikes. A Mesmer doing this has to alternate between attack and defense constantly, from putting Diversion on someone, to E-Burning, to Expelling a hex, to Drawing off spikes, so make sure you have someone who can handle the role. Lastly, pretty much all GvG teams should have a hard res skill, and Mesmers with their Fast Casting is generally the class used. Ressurect was very popular, but now Ressurection Chant is probably better. Also, as a caster, you'll be well off with Distortion on your skillbar to protect you from spikes.

As a Dom Mesmer, your Fast Casting attribute should be around 9 or so, because that's where Fast Casting gives you most bang for your buck. Domination Magic should be about 14, where the cut-off for E-Burn, Blackout and a 53 second Diversion is. You should also always have some sort of Energy Management skill; Drain Enchantment serves as both E-Management and an Enchantment removal, and is probably the most attractive option. Another is Power Drain.

Basically, you need a team build first. A GvG build which isn't 'warrior-centred' should still probably have one or two Warriors in it, simply because of the sheer amount of pressure they put, with Mesmers and Necros supporting (perhaps hexes, and such). If you want to become better players, I suggest balanced. Although it's hard to play, you can only get better, as opposed to running a gimmick like SB/RI, or smite, or any form of caster/ranger spike.

Patrograd · Oct 03, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Generally, in a balanced GvG build, a Mesmer has 2 roles: the generic flagstand Mesmer in all its glory and the gank Mesmer. .

I am starting to notice a few flagrunning mesmers too again. Me/a, next Fotm runner?

Dragannia · Oct 03, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Yes, I've seen a few around. Dash (buffed), Dark Escape and/or Shadow of Haste. Most of the ones I've seen are auxillary runners, however, which is alright I guess. I doubt any team is going to strictly limit the flag-running process to a Mesmer since he doesn't have the utility of a Ele with Extinguish and HP.

ump · Oct 03, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

From an individual point of view,

1) Read http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...hp?&t=10010209 (at least the first post) to get an idea of standard GvG builds.
2) Understand exactly why and how the builds there work. Use observer mode if you can't figure it out because you'll likely see many of these builds there eventually.
3) Try out the build "as is" until you get a real good understanding of the build.
4) Make changes as necessary to your build so you can best fill your role in your team.
5) Continue practicing until you master your role.

Phelann · Oct 03, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroth

But domination doesn't have that much of a spike, it's more draw out, over time. I'm looking for something where u make them hurt them and then spike'em. Like an Empathy based build, but I don't have as many dom skills as I do Illusion.

uh dom mesmers definately have very strong spiking abilities

comonnow · Oct 03, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Well basically I would abandon the Illusion attribute if i were you, but if you want to go pure anti-war I would go TA style and run, spirit of failure, price of failure, conjure, images, distortion, parasitic, rez, and w/e probably E-Drain. but you probably dont wanna do that unless you are running with a hex team b/c it will just get removed.

So I would just run a dom mesmer with blackout, and (coming from a warriors standpoint) if you really wanna annoy warriors, just black them out when they are getting full. I had a mesmer the other day who blacked me out then came out of blackout, casted a few spells then blacked me out, I was hard-pressed to even get a rush off. Now thats not the best idea because you are spending 3/4 of the match blacked out, but it is the most annoying thing i have run across as warrior. So I would just run a dom mesmer with diversion/shatter all that good stuff, or if you really wanna shut wars down run a warder with blinding flash.

Eroth · Oct 03, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

alright. I thank u for the info. and Phelann like I also said I don't have many dom skills so I don't know that they can spike.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 03, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Illusion mesmers work well in a hex-based build. Having run a Crip Anguish and been on the recieving end of GSS's Ineptitude Flagger, I can say that they also do pretty well in any kind of skirmish situation. If I'm organizing a gank, a Crip Anguish mesmer is one of my favorite characters to send because of their ability to snare and kill almost any flag runner. Hexes in general are extremely strong in skirmish, and illusion mesmers have some of the best available. They're also perfectly serviceable at the flagstand with degen characters, so long as there are enough hexes in the build so that you can overload their removal.

Dom mesmers are a different thing. They put some extra pressure on the enemy monks (though if the monks know what they're doing they can get around it pretty well), and they have a very powerful spike contributions with Shatter Enchantment. I don't particularly like to run them outside of an Adreno-spike build, but they definitely have their place in GvG.