Curse

xl3g0lasx · Aug 31, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrozen_

i doubt it.. i think they just made it 6v6 cause of the double fame thing - otherwise we'll have heaps of nubs getting their iway tigers this weekend. i.e. they reduced the number of players you can take so fame farming builds such as iway are less effective.

also someone mentioned that maybe they would make ha 6v6 so that they can then introduce an 8v8 arena in nightfall.. i dunno if this is likely because then people would have to buy nightfall to access 8v8

exactly as u say in ur first paragraph, this is a beta test to see if iway or vim is less effective and stop there fame farming, and if it does they will probably keep it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

You sure? Look below..

Maybe they are afraid that they can't win anymore?

6vs6 Tombs is a fresh environment that will encourage non/retired-Tombers to play, make people form parties easier without resorting to FoTMs, not favor certain builds, give more chance for more builds to be played and facilitate the transition from 4vs4 to 8vs8(GvG).

those against 6vs6 are providing weak arguments such as less people to kill, will be akin to medium sized TA (god!) and speculation that only pressure builds will dominate in there.

the reason they will quit because all they can run is dual choke way, and if u make it 6v6 they cant hold and thats the reason they only get fame by holding

Thom Bangalter · Aug 31, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrOzEnMaGe

whats this "testing beta arena for nightfall" come from lol wow iway/spikers are really scared outa their minds.

/go back to pve

balanced need skill, everyone on the team must do their job for it to work.
and gw is all about how much skill you got isnt it? atleast thats what i been told.

um, thanks for flaming. I mostly play balanced, so please don't flame me, i'm just speculating at what anet is doing.

in fact, all this thread has turned into is a iway flame thread. I don't iway, but I know it's going to be strong this weekend.

JR, you might wanna start deleting posts or locking this thread asap.

Ss Executioner · Sep 01, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

JR, you might wanna start deleting posts or locking this thread asap.

zomg don't discuss things!!!!!!!!

Anyways.... 6v6 hurting iway? are you on crack?
6v6 means less monks... IWAY loves less monks.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 01, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ss Executioner

zomg don't discuss things!!!!!!!!

Anyways.... 6v6 hurting iway? are you on crack?
6v6 means less monks... IWAY loves less monks.

iway flaming ftl.

it's true. any build with a lot of pressure is probably going to thrive. hex heavy builds will be en vogue, which iway tries to manage with NR.

bunny thumpers will be huge, as they can knocklock a couple monks.

warders are going to be ever popular due to this.

Ado · Sep 01, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by xl3g0lasx

this is a beta test to see if iway or vim is less effective and stop there fame farming, and if it does they will probably keep it that way.

New famefarmbuilds will replace the old ones.

Ss Executioner · Sep 01, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

New famefarmbuilds will replace the old ones.

Exactly. Finally somebody sees this. My hat is off sir.

Enter the next completely overpowered thing that nobody has noticed yet.

Minus Sign · Sep 01, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Haven't read it all, so if this has been said I appologize:

One could hope to see a 6v6 game, but not Hearo's Ascent. I hope this is a prelude to a 6-man "middle of the road" between HA and TA, one without the laddar and altar matches(and gold/sigil rewards for holding halls) but with fame.

A seperate 6v6 could be a new way to get fame (consequently getting many fame farmers out of HA), something many PvPers have been calling for--on both sides of the argument--for a long time.

The fame farmers should be dancing a jig. Faster teaming, easier to manage once you're in? Big bonus. And the upper tier players should prefer it as well, seeing as they can play through their matches quickly now, without having to step over those distasteful IWAY/ViMWay teams that only exist to fight through the first few maps, die, and do it again.

The only downside is that it makes rank a total joke in HA (...ok, moreso) as every new player will now be learning on a different battleground. But this could be good too, as hardcore HAers begin to play with the new ranked players and hopefully realise that time spent in HA does not equal skill. This might serve to further kill off Fame farmers once that misconception is shattered and teams start taking members based on PvP titles--not just emote--making HA all the more appealing to return to.

Done right, a seperate 6v6 arena could spell the beginning of a golden age for HA. Just making HA 6v6, however, is no solution. The fame farming builds will be modified very quickly or replaced in short order and we'll be back where we are now in a matter of months if not days...and 2 men smaller. In fact, due to Allinace members being able to schrimage with one another, I would be surprised if there were not already an effective 6 man IWAY and ViMway that has been tested and is ready to use.

In short: if this is a prelude to a perminant change in HA, Anet has learned nothing.

EDIT=read all and expounded key hypothesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Good old 8 vs 8 HA is going to stay!

I wouldn't take anything Gaile says on too much faith were I you. As often as she tells us she knows this or has not heard that, she has also said she is not in a position to know certain things as well. She's PR, not development, and that sentence you quote is less statement than you appear to believe and more smoke in fog.

Nurse With Wound · Sep 01, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

New famefarmbuilds will replace the old ones.

QFT

6 vs 6 would only strenghten pressure builds, and make few changes in the HA metagame for a short period. We would see 6 man vims, and 6 man iways sooner than you think! And what would be worse, in smaller teams theres less option for change or experiment than in 8 man team. You can always add 8th new utility char that would change the whole build into something else, there is lot of space for experimenting, which my guild, and i'm sure lots of other HA guilds do. In 6 man team you will be forced to take what is necessary, nothing more. This is simple math.

Besides it seems anet respects the silent majority that plays and enjoys the current Heroes Ascend. Quote from today's chat with Gaile.

Good old 8 vs 8 HA is going to stay!

tomcruisejr · Sep 01, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ss Executioner

zomg don't discuss things!!!!!!!!

Anyways.... 6v6 hurting iway? are you on crack?
6v6 means less monks... IWAY loves less monks.

IWAY loves people who tank dmg like 55 monks, not less monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

6 vs 6 would only strenghten pressure builds, and make few changes in the HA metagame for a short period. We would see 6 man vims, and 6 man iways sooner than you think! And what would be worse, in smaller teams theres less option for change or experiment than in 8 man team. You can always add 8th new utility char that would change the whole build into something else, there is lot of space for experimenting, which my guild, and i'm sure lots of other HA guilds do. In 6 man team you will be forced to take what is necessary, nothing more. This is simple math.

again purely speculations and IWAY and ViM arent the only pressure builds (to you maybe coz those 2 builds are staple in ha and stronger with 8 players).

if you read this thread, someone from a consistent HA winning guild told that everything (holding i suppose) is easy in 8vs8 setup and winning might be hard when ha is changes to 6 vs 6. the paranoia about pressure builds is just an excuse to prevent a.net to "take away their fame maker".

Nurse With Wound · Sep 01, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

again purely speculations and IWAY and ViM arent the only pressure builds (to you maybe coz those 2 builds are stronger with 8 players).

Your arguments are also purely speculations. And thank you very much, I know the current pressure builds which are used in HA. I mentioned only the most overused ones, which wont lost their strenght in the 6vs6 metagame. But do you? I mean playing only iway can make you overlook many things about the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

if you read this thread, someone from a consistent HA winning guild told that everything (holding i suppose) is easy in 8vs8 setup and winning might be hard when ha is changes to 6 vs 6. the paranoia about pressure builds is just an excuse to prevent a.net to "take away their fame maker".

Well, that was this person's opinion. I dont agree with it. First, my guild doesn't play holding builds as we do not enjoy this style of gameplay ( nothing wrong with it, though ). Second I do not believe that winning will be harder ( well maybe with purely holding builds, but i dont care about them ), but I do believe, that with smaller team size there wont be such wide space for experimenting with new ideas. Moreover, I gave lots of other agruments for 8 vs 8 in my previous posts. But we all have rights to different opinions.

Again, we will see how the 6 vs 6 game will look like in sunday, and we will see who was right. See you in HA!

tomcruisejr · Sep 01, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Well, that was this person's opinion. I dont agree with it...

sadly, he has more street cred than you. peace.

sheepysheepy · Sep 01, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

the idea was probably just to stir things up and decrease peoples holding potential, people already know how to hold quite easily with the 8man teams they've been honing for the past year+ and seen as this cant be practiced in advance the first day at least is gonna be real interesting with either 1 team holding all night or a different team winning each game, beta-testing for a 6v6 is possible but the drawbacks that spring to my mind are 1 - i dont want 8v8 tombs replaced altogether

2 - if they leave 8v8 in and also introduce a 6v6, it just causes a divide of the already small enough pvp scene

i dont however agree vim/i/way suffer too much, people will likely use 2monks unless theyre attempting some crazy holding gimmick, and 3 warriors 3 trappers will not complain about that im guessing

vapor311 · Sep 01, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

To the OP, in my opinion it's a 100% beta test for a permanent change to HA. I think the timing for the event is too coincidental to be overlooked. With World Championships over and no ladder season in the works until Nightfall most likely, now is the logical time to make a major change to the PvP landscape and shake things up some to keep people interested for another 2 months.

I'm on the fence whether or not A-net would add a 6 player arena for Nightfall. I'm taking an educated guess, but I would say the current GW population splits around 35% of GW players are involved with PvP on some level. Of those 35% I would guess half of those don't compete at the level of HA or GvG for a variety of reasons, but the most prominent of them would be matchmaking difficulties. Therefore it's in A-net's best interest to improve the matchmaking process. No big revelation there.

The other reason I believe that it's going to be a permanent change to HA is the fact that I don't think the PvP player base has enough mass to warrant a new gametype. It's already subdivided between RA/TA/AB/HA/GvG. Regardless of how cool and shiny Nightfall is the game bleeds players at a fairly consistent pace. People move on to other games at a faster pace than new players pick up GW. I can say that with a good deal of certainty. On top of that, not everyone will buy Nightfall which further limits the player pool for a Nightfall only 6v6 arena.

I believe if A-Net was truly testing out a "new" 6v6 arena type they would have the gametype mechanics and maps for it already and would instead just put a portal to it at the Great Temple. They could offer fame at the new arena to entice players to try it out just the same. I'm sure that it would receive significant play if that were the case. More than enough for them to justify a beta test without modifying the mechanics of a well established arena. ArenaNet has a specific agenda for making the changes to HA. Barring a catastrophic failure or massive public outcry I see 6 man becoming the standard for HA matches on a permanent basis. Much like the PvP Extreme Weekend last August when the maps were modified significantly, I see the effects of this weekends festivities lasting beyond Tuesday.

Yunas Ele · Sep 01, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ss Executioner

Anyways.... 6v6 hurting iway? are you on crack?
6v6 means less monks... IWAY loves less monks.

Yup, only builds /w monks will be losing characters. IWAY will keep all 8 of its characters and thus be able to pwn those 6 man teams with only 2 monks.... oh wait.... IWAY loses characters too, meaning less pressure output from IWAY! Man, who'd of thought of that!

Maybe IWAY will strive but its all speculation. Still 4 hours to go~

JR · Sep 01, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Yup, only builds /w monks will be losing characters. IWAY will keep all 8 of its characters and thus be able to pwn those 6 man teams with only 2 monks.... oh wait.... IWAY loses characters too, meaning less pressure output from IWAY! Man, who'd of thought of that!

Maybe IWAY will strive but its all speculation. Still 4 hours to go~

Just what I was thinking...

Obus · Sep 01, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

i hope this is a test for permanent change in HA
about time!

Kyp Jade · Sep 01, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

It would really CHANGE the tournament play. At current time and place, tombs is stagnant. There are 10 teams of iway for every 8 teams of vimway for every 8 teams of b spike for every 4 teams of "balanced"

Just to refresh everyones memory on the definition of balanced build

A balanced build is a build that is somewhat prepared for all 8 maps.
(isnt it ironic that iway qualifies for balanced build, but ppl flame it as unbalanced) Many people have the misconception that a balanced build is a build with monks.

[note that i have a great disdain for iway teams and its very boring facing them every 3rd match]

Builds will seperate into a few catagories this weekend (hopefully longer)
<note> iway and vimway are popular because ppl dont need vent, they will continue on in the 6man format mostly because of this reason, though it will also have some modifications OTHER than drop 1 war and 1 xx
6man iway (laugh)
6man vimway (laugh)
Gimmicks (smite etc etc)
mixed spike
Balanced.

Note that iway is no longer in the balanced catagory, iway only barely fits into it before because it had enough space in the 64 slots to allow at least 1 skill for each map. (sprint for broken tower, and for both relic runs etc etc etc, (can still hold ok enough if your warriors block the ghosts from the altar))

However, the degrees of freedom have dropped from 64, to 48. GG prepping for 8 maps 6-man balanced builds.

Now, skills like ward of foes will make thier way into any balanced build, just as it serves a dual purpose of kite assist/relic run.

With only 6 people to worry about, crowd control skills like snares may actually see much more play, as it is feasable enough to keep 2 melee chars slowed 80+% of the time using about 4-5 of your 48 skillbase.

You get more res sigs. The ratio is better. 4/6 is better than 5/8 (2/3 > almost 2/3) Making them more effective and essential.

its just my speculation at this point, but windborn speed (i love this skill) may never see play again.

SB is gone

Gale may rear its ugly head again.

Shutdown mesmers will re-enter the scene.

AoE type builds at this point may gain or lose effectiveness.
Your losing the likely hood of players being in the area of each other. (though vimway teams always ball)

The only way to hold now is to keep 2 ghostlys interupted for 2 mins.

B spikes are gone. with only 5spikers + 1 spammer support, opp gaze i fear are too expensive, and SS+gaze spikes wont have energy to spike + heal with only 1 battery type. (they can if they never miss a spike, which may happen as MANY teams are losing thier SB/INFUSE)

and last and most important.
The second proffesion will make a lot of difference in balanced teams, cross classing skills so you can get the kind of things you need is going to be more popular with only 48 slots to fit stuff. You will want to fit to the model of about 1/3 backline types. (2/6 ~~ 3/8).

Have fun and see you in halls

Nero · Sep 01, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Random Arena = 1 player zone
Team Arena = 4 man party zone
HA = 6 man party zone
GvG = 8 man party zone

looks like a learning curve beta-test eh

/agree

Zinger314 · Sep 01, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Well, you still need to be Rank 3 and/or IWAY/ViM to get into a group...

/shrug

Nurse With Wound · Sep 01, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Yeah, nothing really changed. Its r/w LF VIM r6+, or VIMWAY LF IWAY warriors. We met also few interesting builds... still some guildies were left out of the group, because ist 6 only