Curse

deathy · Oct 02, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Very Unconventional...

Any help you could give me would be great

http://gwshack.us/5ac3b

Notes under the build.

Thanks.

clonmac · Oct 02, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Your frontline could definately put the pressure on. But, the backline is where things would be tough. Whenever I play a spirit build, I always try and think of how it would do if the spirits were not down. In this case, I see this build having a tough time keeping the spirits down. That spirit spammer ranger wide open to interrupts. If he is forced to place the spirits further in the backline, then the enemy can easily take a step back and get out of spirit range.

The monks in the case that the spirits are down would be severely taxed without much e-management. It might be worth taking out the Primal Echoes in place of Whirling Defense to help with placing spirits down. Then have the monks carry Signet of Devotion for added energy management and under QZ Sig of Devo will recharge twice as fast. Then, on the mesmer, I would take out the Shatter Enchantment for Complicate. This will prevent enemy monks from using Signet of Devotion as well.

At the very least, I think the ranger needs something to help prevent interruption of spirit placement. There is no Aegis, Guardian, or stances for him to use. So you can consider all of those spirits interrupted.

Just some food for thought.

deathy · Oct 02, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Thanks for the reply, i agree that interrupts and melee pressure will be a huge problem for this build.

Its something i will look at when i actually use the build to see how much offence can be taken out for defence

As to e-management, they still have power drain^^

Some opinions on using the restoration rts? I think these would be more likely to be effective in both situations, but i need another opinion...

CAT · Oct 02, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

First of all.. i feel your build would have a lot of problems with gimmicks. Any sort of spike would tear through that considering the only defense you have is a few savage shots which all good spikes will be prepared against anyway. I suggest maybe running a fertile? on your spamming maybe, charge is very good under QZ too. Your build also has very little hex removal, 1 ihex and 1 remove hex will not even be close to being enough against heavy hex teams. Hex teams will shut down all of your offense (4 phys chars) and have no problem with your backline considering you have QZ and NR up. Goes without saying that against any focused split build you will be crippled because you have a spirit spammer.. which isnt helping one of your teams and probably hurting the other with qz+nr. Isnt really a fix to that besides running on the fire isle and/or not using a spirit spammer.

Your warrior builds are also very frustrating to play, with QZ up you need to have atleast 14 energy every time you want to use it, considering the 7 energy cost and the 7 energy cancel. Also the adren will be very tight on your warriors, considering you will be(or should be) spamming fear me every 4 adren, you add extra adren needed to charge gash, sun and moon, and dslash.

The spirit spammer build will be very difficult, apply poison being an upwards of 10 energy and inturrupts+oath being expensive as well. Also you have no defense whatsoever for your spirits, if a warrior wants to kill them he can walk right up to them(or an emo flashbot or some other caster) with no forcing of the midline/backline up front to assist the warriors. I think your spirit spammer should be your flag runner, and let your flashbot come up front and assist the backline(very little defense in this build, besides the intent on heavy offense).
Also keep in mind that your ranger is going to be heavy, heavy frontline. It will need to be dshotting heal parties and inturrupting spikes. I would shoot for 8 illusion if you could to help the ranger deal with warriors. Remember the rangers enery cap and regen is limited, considering under qz with no energy management aside from expertise.
The 4 offensive characters are decently put together, with a themed offense and a pretty heavy pressure to some backlines, but what really scares me is your mesmer build. I think a serpants quickness edrain weariness mesmer would be a little better, your mesmer isnt really thought out. Some problems are
Remember under QZ, drain enchant is only a 5 energy gain and pdrain is situational. Surge and burn is 13 energy, and shatter enchant is 19 and pretty bad considering there really isnt a spike co-ordinated in the other characters. Also, no distortion with the hard res makes it unreliable when you only have 3 res sigs in the build.
Backline is ok i guess.. its really impossible to make a good backline that operates under qz. I like divine intervention under QZ, but once again you dont have alot of hex and condi removal so if the warriors are shut down your monks will collapse.

I think the build theme and idea is ok(aside from spirits in gvg). I really think the best way to improve the build would be to play it in gvg and see how characters energy would be and what teams do against it in certain situations. When you run a different build you cant really be sure of anything thats going to happen and how teams are going to react.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 02, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

AGreed with Clonmac. This build should easily ahve enough interrupts to deal with heavy hexes, considering that interrupting hexes under NR is piss easy. I would drop primal exchoes for whirling definitely, and possibly drop something else for a res on that character.

On a second thought, I would drop the apply on the spirit spammer and just switch the surger to a cripshot with debilitating. Debilitating is a LOT of edenial in itself, and the poison/cripple will help with the pressure.

deathy · Oct 02, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Maybe a Warder instead of the e surge?

orb - flash - draw - melee - foes - prodigy - glyph - res chant

What you think about using rts as backline?

I honestly don't know how to fix the ss problem, because i could drop the spirits, but then i might as well start again, and i could drop apply/savage/distract/debil but then whatever way you look at it, its alot of spike power gone

Weariness under primal echoes? ^^

As to the warriors, maybe sins with fear me?

Hex removal - again i can't really fit it in anyway, i could make an expel mes but...

As to a split - as it is the ss would still be fairly effective without the spirits down.

I'll see if my guild want to try the build out though ^^

deathy · Oct 02, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

AGreed with Clonmac. This build should easily ahve enough interrupts to deal with heavy hexes, considering that interrupting hexes under NR is piss easy. I would drop primal exchoes for whirling definitely, and possibly drop something else for a res on that character.

On a second thought, I would drop the apply on the spirit spammer and just switch the surger to a cripshot with debilitating. Debilitating is a LOT of edenial in itself, and the poison/cripple will help with the pressure.

K - i type too slow... ^^ (sorry for double post but its kinda necessary)

My reasoning behind primal echo is that without even any e-denial most monks will fall without sod, and warriors will be alot easier to kill without heal sig

adding a dedicated crip is definately interesting though, and will also allow me to make the e/mo stay at the flag stand if needed

Would i just drop apply poison for distortion/whirling or would i change other skills too?

3x savage under qz
3x distract under qz
3x debil under qz !!!!!
= gg
Would qz, primal echoes and debilitatingx3 be enough e-denial?
If so, i could consider swapping the d-slashers for something

Everyone ignores the rts =( please comment about their usefulness =(

EDIT!!!! - If i lose the surger, i lose draw and the hard res...

TheOneMephisto · Oct 02, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathy

K - i type too slow... ^^ (sorry for double post but its kinda necessary)

My reasoning behind primal echo is that without even any e-denial most monks will fall without sod, and warriors will be alot easier to kill without heal sig

adding a dedicated crip is definately interesting though, and will also allow me to make the e/mo stay at the flag stand if needed

Would i just drop apply poison for distortion/whirling or would i change other skills too?

3x savage under qz
3x distract under qz
3x debil under qz !!!!!
= gg
Would qz, primal echoes and debilitatingx3 be enough e-denial?
If so, i could consider swapping the d-slashers for something

Everyone ignores the rts =( please comment about their usefulness =(

EDIT!!!! - If i lose the surger, i lose draw and the hard res...

Spamming one copy of debilitating shot under QZ is 6 pips of degen. 18 pips of degen combined with fear me? That's a lot of edenial.

Draw conditions shouldn't be too needed considering that if you can't keep interrupting ether prodigy almost constantly then you need new rangers. A hard res is hard to live without, but it's doable.

clonmac · Oct 03, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

As far as the Rit's go, they look fine and I would just test them out to see how they would work. One word of advice, I would swap out Weapon of Warding for Vengeful Weapon.

I ran a build with a Restoration Rit under QZ once and using Vengeful Weapon under QZ is amazing. You can spam it all day long on who ever the warrior is building up adrenaline on and that warrior will be losing 50 health for each hit. It is a really great way for your healers to contribute to the pressure of the build while at the same time keeping your team alive. Without Healing Signet, the warriors will need to pull out in order to get a heal from their monks. The monks will then need to spend limited energy to heal them leaving less energy for themselves. With a build with a weaker backline, it could be what you need to help diminish the pressure being applied to them.

Also, using the Rit's will also help contribute to the e-denial of the build. There will be less enchantments around for the enemy monks to Drain. With already no hexes in the build, their monks will really need to conserve energy and not waste any bit of it.

At this point I would say try it out and see how things go. You may find things along the way that you didn't see before. I can say that most teams you will face with this type of build will probably split. However, the nice thing about this type of build is that you can almost guarantee that their offensive split won't contain a monk in it if they are running a two monk backline. They won't be able to afford to keep only 1 monk back under this extreme type of e-denial. This gives you a little more flexibility as to what you send back to counter their gank squad. It may be just as simple as sending your Blinding Flash Ele back.

deathy · Oct 04, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Build Updated

lord of shadow · Oct 04, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I get fairly worried running one dragon slash warrior because of the danger of blackout... you have two- and their effectiveness is lessened by the extra adrenaline skill
why do you have traps on your melandrus and not on the oath- where they recharge in 20 seconds?

Considering QZ will hurt you as well, a -3 distortion is risky on the rangers, and a -4 on the oath is suicide

Primal echoes sucks, no SOD on your monk means he can do precisely nothing whilst in his -energy set

Divine spirit will be up 1/4 of the time at most (assuming 20% enchanting), and at a 13ish energy investment will barely let you break even.
Edit- ok it will be up half the time if it isnt removed, provided QZ is up, still doesn't warrant a place

You have no hex removal, dont give me any bullshit saying blessed light will do- it costs 13 energy and the only e-management on your monk is power drain.

You will fall apart against any split, as you are so dependant on spirits, mind you, considering the only protection they have are traps without oath, they won't last much time 8v8 either. Even ignoring your spirits, split and you have no hex removal on one team and not enough to interrupts heses with on either, you rit looks very fragile without backup and your monk, SOD-less as it is, will be able to cope with very little pressure on the split, where Divine spirit looks even worse.

- Alex

deathy · Oct 04, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

I get fairly worried running one dragon slash warrior because of the danger of blackout... you have two- and their effectiveness is lessened by the extra adrenaline skill
why do you have traps on your melandrus and not on the oath- where they recharge in 20 seconds?

Considering QZ will hrut you as well, a -3 distortion is risky on the rangers, and a -4 on the oath is suicide

Primal echoes sucks

Divine spirit will be up 1/4 of the time at most (assuming 20% enchanting), and at a 13ish energy investment will barely let you break even.

You have no hex removal, dont give me any bullshit saying blessed light will do- it costs 13 energy and the only e-management on your monk is power drain.

You will fall apart against any split, as you are so dependant on spirits, mind you, considering the only protection they have are traps without oath, they won't last much time 8v8 either.

- Alex

Distortion for whirling defence?
primal echoes vs sod+heal sig?
divine spirit is under qz so its more like 65% of the time...
i agree hexs may be a problem, i was hoping that with the amount of disruption and e-denial in the build we would be able to stop the hexes, distract a few of the cover hexes etc...

As to a split, i think that dragon slasher, crip, monk and dragon slasher, melandrus, ele, rt should be able to cope, theri builds are still fairly offensive even without qz down...

The ss could just run the flag...

TheOneMephisto · Oct 04, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

You have no hex removal, dont give me any bullshit saying blessed light will do- it costs 13 energy and the only e-management on your monk is power drain.

As I've said, you don't really need hex control with 2-3 dshots and 2-3 savages. If they're getting off any amount of money hexes then you deserv to lose.

deathy · Oct 05, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

As I've said, you don't really need hex control with 2-3 dshots and 2-3 savages. If they're getting off any amount of money hexes then you deserv to lose.

And NR ^^