Curse

Vermilion · Jun 20, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

No, this isn't a straightforward question, and yes I searched.

Since the update that increased faction gain everywhere, (6/15?) I've been doing a lot of ABs..but they are starting to remind me of Doing Thunder Head Keep. People typically are looking for Tanks, Nukers, MM's, etc...and here I was thinking that a Warrior was a tank everywhere BUT PvP.

Maybe this is due to the intelligence of the players, but it seems a lot of "nukers" in particular don't ever bother to bring a single defensive or healing skill. I figure that in PvE, thats acceptable, because as a caster you shouldn't be taking damage anyway..thanks to the faithful tanks. I've only ever played as a monk in AB's, and having to protect anyone that 1.doesn't kite, 2. Doesn't heal, etc, gets kind of annoying.

Am I crazy or just stupid?
Discuss.

and..night.

Zui · Jun 20, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

IMO It's scrub PvP(for the most part). Here's why:

1) There are only PvE rewards(ok, ok, you now have 1/10th of the total faction you could get from other PvP). This attracts masses of PvErs.

2) The side assignments are random. This is like Random Arenas, but instead of 3 other random players, it's 2 other teams usualy consisting of PUGs which are pretty random and lack any sort of teamwork.

3) Deaths really don't matter that much as compared to other forms of PvP.

JoDiamonds · Jun 20, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

It's pretty clearly PvP in my head. You aren't fighting the environment or doing weird quests. The primary enemy is clearly other players, who happen to have NPCs at their disposal.

Many players don't bring self-healing in PvP, either (Random Arena being an exception). Failing to kite when appropriate is mostly just silly (though sometimes finishing a Meteor Shower cast is more important than surviving, which is rarely true in most PvP environments, but that doesn't make it not PvP).

There's very little that's generally like PvE in Alliance Battles. If you consider that the NPCs in GvG or various other PvP formats don't detract from them being PvP, I don't see what the big difference is. Some PvE tactics are more useful in ABs than HA, say, but that varies anyway from format to format.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 20, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

IMO It's scrub PvP(for the most part).

Agreed

JiggyFly · Jun 21, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

It's definitely PvP, most of the time even scrub PvP...but it is one of the few forms of PvP, that alot of the PvEers in my alliance really enjoy. So I suppose it's PvP that appeals to everyone.

Navaros · Jun 24, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

It's pretty much both, with in my view a lot more PVE characters present on the field than PVP characters.

If it had to be one or the other, I'd say from my experience that it's PVE considering that ill-equipped PVE characters seem to vastly out-number much-better equipped PVP characters on the field.

The Real Roy Keane · Jun 25, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

No, this isn't a straightforward question, and yes I searched.

Since the update that increased faction gain everywhere, (6/15?) I've been doing a lot of ABs..but they are starting to remind me of Doing Thunder Head Keep. People typically are looking for Tanks, Nukers, MM's etc...and here I was thinking that a Warrior was a tank everywhere BUT PvP.

Maybe this is due to the intelligence of the players, but it seems a lot of "nukers" in particular don't ever bother to bring a single defensive or healing skill. I figure that in PvE, thats acceptable, because as a caster you shouldn't be taking damage anyway..thanks to the faithful tanks. I've only ever played as a monk in AB's, and having to protect anyone that 1.doesn't kite, 2. Doesn't heal, etc, gets kind of annoying.

Am I crazy or just stupid?
Discuss.

and..night.

The only reason they're looking for these builds is becuase a great deal of AB players are PvE'ers who don't know better. Take a coherent team of four and tear them to pieces.

AhuraMazda · Jun 25, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Its technically PvP, but capture the flag means that the deciding factor is not straight up combat skill/outcome.

It is the GW version of a WoW raid. Lots of people running around usually disorganised, with encounters ranging from 12v12 to 1v1 and any and all combinations inbetween.

Its Player Versus Player at capturing flags, and not Player Versus Player at combat skill, and there is a distinction.

Definatly PvP lite, more like the PvE endgame that has been missing if you dont like team based high pressure one-mistime-and-you-die PvP that Guild Wars has elsewhere.

I like it, but with little at stake and the random aspect of it, it will never be high level challenge of player skill and team co-ordination and development.

Notice how immediatly one of the major concerns, just like early days of Tombs, is Corpse Control.

Necros can do more than raise minions guys...

art_ · Jun 25, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Its pvp with pve standard of play.

samifly · Jun 25, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

I dont think less emphasis on skill in combat makes it "lite" its more strategic than RA/TA. If it wasnt random, it would be alot harder and more intelligent.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 25, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

I dont think less emphasis on skill in combat makes it "lite" its more strategic than RA/TA. If it wasnt random, it would be alot harder and more intelligent.

It may be more strategic, but almost none of the players playing it know that.

Loch · Jun 25, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

It's PvP, but without the head-to-head competitive atmosphere. While it's not PvE, it's casual enough to appeal to PvE players, but the slight organization involved in setting up teams makes it better than Random Arenas.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 02, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Is it PvP? Depends on who you ask. As a primarily PvE player, IMHO it is most definitely PvP. Just like HA, GvG, RA, and Team Arenas are PvP. I don't carry the same build in ABs as I do in PvE. And I'm sure that if I played in GvG or HA, my build would be different in those formats, too. The enemies I'm facing in ABs aren't mindless AIs that I know ahead of time what they're going to do or where they're going. Each battle, even if in the same arena, is going to be slightly different as you're facing different types of opponents - one minute you're facing a guild group, the next you're facing a couple of guys that got seperated from the rest of their PUG.

Give the AB players time to mature & learn the ins & outs of it and in another month or two the skill level of the players there will improve dramatically. And the ones that don't improve will move on to other things.

JoDiamonds · Jul 02, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

You've got it, Kook. Of course, I don't know how much more learning there is to go on for most AB players. We might be mostly where we can get (not quite, of course).

There's going to be new players rotating in slowly, always. And most players probably have learned 90% of what they ever will about Alliance Battles after a month of play (or maybe 50 or 100 battles?) More battles still improves play, but at a much slower rate. At some point, the experience of most players is essentially topped off and things don't change much anymore.

It was interesting during the preview weekend. Friday, alliance battles were terrible. On Sunday, a lot of people knew what was going on.

Franco · Aug 31, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Yeah Vermillion its not our fault you get in a team full of clueless players trying to get some faction to turn into Jade or Amber just to make some money, ( because there arent better ways to farm *cough*sarcasm*cough*)

Im in the 2nd best Luxon guild , we re faction farmers, come in a game with me and another 2 guildies or alliance members and you ll see the PvE *noob tanks and nukers*
*Sarcasm)

Nukers = suck in ab, Air spikers ftw, even water and earth is better, to slow down enemies or just give hexes

Tanks = suck but arent really bad because they can Solo Cap shrines if things go wrong with other team members, Note that not every team has a monk so they need to have some healing, A Shock Warrior wouldnt last 3 seconds in the Ele shrine

.

Guild Terror · Aug 31, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

A Shock Warrior wouldnt last 3 seconds in the Ele shrine

.

thier armor makes them last easily longer than 3 secs... if they dont have frenzy up...

Riotgear · Sep 01, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Perhaps it is "scrub PvP", but in that sense you can do all sorts of things and try all sorts of builds you could never get away with in more organized forms of it.

Quote:

Maybe this is due to the intelligence of the players, but it seems a lot of "nukers" in particular don't ever bother to bring a single defensive or healing skill

Because the only real healing skills elementalists have are Aura of Restoration, which requires spamming to keep up and is completely negated once someone starts dumping degen, and Ether Renewal, which is usually dropped for Elemental Attunement. With echo nuking, the only other decent heal skill is ether feast.

MMs are prominant because there are tons of corpses to go around in AB. Tanks are prominant because the warrior class is infested with noobs.

Quote:

Nukers = suck in ab, Air spikers ftw, even water and earth is better, to slow down enemies or just give hexes

How is earth better? Slower at clearing shrines than fire, the defensive aspect is better handled by water (deep freeze/blurred, also get maelstrom for spanking the caster shrines), so many people are toting condition spam and armor-ignoring forms of damage that the defensive enchantments are kind of lackluster. Only high point is using sliver armor for disintegrating minion packs.

"Tanks" do suck though, bad damage output = ignorable waste of space. You can't kill them, but who cares?

Crunch · Sep 03, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

It's PvP and it's really just for fun, when i go in their I don't expect healing and don't usually bring heal/defense spells on my nuker or mesmer, because you get rezzed after 15seconds it doesn't matter.

Soldat · Sep 16, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

well, since PvP is "Player vs. Player", i think that AB would fit into this category.
Reason: 12 humans vs. 12 humans
Only reason i could think of it being even considered PvE would b if it fit into the storyline for Factions. But since you can only access it through ur Guild Hall, then yes, its definitely Player vs. Player.

Mesmer in Need · Sep 16, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

you put it in thhe gladiators arena. question answered