Curse

Ex Inferus · Oct 16, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Hi,

Do u think that its nice to have a Water Ele and a Cripple Shot Ranger in Offense?
I mean everybody says that a Water Ele is useless but i dont think so at all.
Why should an Air Ele be better? yeah sure, it does more Dmg. on spikes but it doesnt do any Aoe Dmg or Snares, which gives u a tactical advantage. The Water Ele could also take Blinding Flash, 7s is fine, or even a Ward. So the only disadvantage to an Air ele is less Dmg.
With a Cripple Shotter u can add some pressure + interrupt.
You maybe can pressure the two ennemy monks to death ;the Water Ele and the Ranger, each one snares one monk so that the warriors wont have many problems to kill them.
And i'm certain that the damage for Adrenalin Spikes is enough(the 5th character would be a mesmer or whatever).

Xasew · Oct 16, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Water Eles are fine, normally the snares are used defencively, though.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 16, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

A Crip/Apply is a nice offensive and disruptive character. It can cripple key targets, interrupt important skills, and spread around a fair amount of degen.

A Water Ele at the stand is also nice, but it's really more of a defensive character. Snares can be used offensively if they're on the retreat, but most of the time you'll find yourself snaring/blurring warriors.

In short, bring a Cripshot if you want snares + offense and a water ele if you want snares + defense. I think the Cripshot is a more versatile template though.

Bugeater · Oct 16, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex Inferus

I mean everybody says that a Water Ele is useless

Who's saying they're useless? Anyone who makes a blanket statement that water ele's are useless doesn't know about the game. However to answer your question, both those characters are pretty much not used in an offensive role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex Inferus

yeah sure, it does more Dmg. on spikes but it doesnt do any Aoe Dmg or Snares, which gives u a tactical advantage. The Water Ele could also take Blinding Flash, 7s is fine, or even a Ward.

You mention blind, wards, and snares. Which is defense, defense, and mostly defense.

A cripshotter does some pressure damage via poison, but is generally defensive character as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex Inferus

You maybe can pressure the two ennemy monks to death

The cases where the monks will fold because of pressure from your water ele or cripshotter are probably pretty limited. If they're going to go, it'll be from pressure from your pressure characters...like warriors.

So yeah they're great characters if your build supports them, but no they're not really offensive characters.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 16, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

It really depends on the metagame and how many copies of heal party you need. Need 2? water ele. need 1? air runner and crip shot. Based on the last season crip shot with blackout would've been a lot stronger.

Program Ftw · Oct 17, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

One of the main strengths of the crip rangers, is that they are probs the most durable thing going in GvG at the moment.

Aslong as you can stick in their base and kill/snare/distract their runner, you're doing a good thing. However just a few tips of warning:

1) You need to be competant.
2) You need to be confident in your ability to kill a E/Mo with blinding flash.
3) No Superiors. Ever.
4) Consult your team before doing this. Don't run off without asking.
5) Distortion is a key skill here.
6) Pack a +60hp Staff.

Also, about Offensive and Defensive squads? I don't think it is right to base a split on bottom half and top half of your team.

If you are Vs. a spike, both monks will be needed at the flag stand, for example.

And with a water elem and a Crip ranger? I would run a hybrid of water and air.

Anyways, Thanks.
-Program.

Ex Inferus · Oct 17, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Thanks for the replies.
But lets say now i've got this Build in GvG,more or less standard:
2 Warriors,1 Surger,1 Cs Ranger,1 Water,2 monks, air ele runner
I mean it seems great to me, Adrenaline Spike Dmg. is ok i suppose and you've got quite much defense.(snares,blind,2 Hp,etc.). The ranger gives more versatility in Splits or whatever and adds pressure+interrupts.
I'm not really sure about the Water Ele though, I havent tested it in Offense(not as a runner) yet. But to me it just seems superior to an Air Ele.Ok, like I said, the only weaker point compared to an Air Ele is less Dmg but thats all.
So in that case, Water or Air?

Muppet87 · Oct 17, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Why not just have a happy medium?

Air / Water Hyrbid:
Blinding Flash [Air]
Lightning Orb [Air]
Deep Freeze [Water]
Ether Prodigy [Energy Storage Elite]
Heal Party [Healing]
Aegis / Extinguish [Protection]
Glyph Of Sacrafice [No Attribute]
Ressurection Chant [Healing]

Attributes for Heal Party and Aegis:
[Air] : 12
[Energy] : 9
[Healing] : 9
[Protection] : 9
[Water] : Remaining

Attributes for Heal Party and Extinguish:
[Air] : 14
[Energy] : 9
[Healing] : 9
[Protection] : Remaining
[Water] : Remaining

This build gives you 1) 9 second blinds for warrior control , 2) A nice heal party , 3) A 9 second Aegis OR Extinguish, 4) Defensive snares (or offensive..like if a whole group is running deep freeze = gg), and 5) Instant res with Glyph Of Sacrafice + Res Chant.

You could even turn this build into a runner if thats what you really want to do (Take our glyph and chant. Throw in Res sig and also a running skill such as Windborne Speed or that other water one, sorry not much of an Ele person).

I hope this gives you some insight.

CS Ranger Vs Water Ele concerning base defense:
I think CS Ranger is better suited for base defense than a Water Ele simply because Water Ele has the AoE effect where as CS Ranger is degen + single target. A sword warrior + cs ranger can have a devestating effect on multiple targets attacking your NPCs at base. Sever + Poison compliment each other very well, imo.

CS Ranger Vs Water Ele concerning flag stand:
I would much rather have a CS Ranger in my flag stand group if I had atleast 1 HP and some other solid defense. Why? Well like most of you have pointed out in post above the CS Ranger interupts, snares, and degens, and can also energy deny with Debilitating Shot. If your opposing team only has one HP and he is found then you can have your CS ranger camp that Ele and shut down a good bit of their defense. This could really make or break a match.

CrispyCritter · Oct 17, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

I really think it depends what kind of build you're playing. For a pressure build, I would probably go with the Cripshot, since water eles generally don't do all that much damage. For an adrenal spike build, I could see using a water ele. I could also see using a water ele with smiting or hexes.

Basically, like all eles, a water ele is more a support character, whereas the Cripshot can actually do disruption and e-denial.

Patccmoi · Oct 17, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

There's a pretty cool infight water ele build we used a while ago when we went Warrior-heavy (3 wars):

12 + 2 EStorage
11 + 2 + 1 Water
5 Blood
2 Curses (Shadow of Fear doesn't need any point to be good, it will more or less always be removed before it reaches its full duration. It's already 23s at 2 Curses which is huge)

Ice Spikes
Deep Freeze
Blurred Vision / Shard Storm if you want more snare
Shadow of Fear
Dark Fury
Aura of Restoration
Ether Prodigy
Rez Signet

You could use Ice Spikes/Deep Freeze to snare targets for the wars to pummel, and for defense you did Blurred Vision covered with Shadow of Fear (which is very spammable, so you can just recast it if you notice it's removed).

The idea is to use Dark Fury-X-Dark Fury-X-Dark Fury-X. This way, Aura of Restoration makes up for the sac totally (you gain some health from casting Dark Fury, and you cover what you lack by casting your next spell). It's also why you use 2 major runes, to have lower max health and a better Aura of Restoration, otherwise you will slowly sac yourself down (well ofc monks can help...)

It was a very nice mix of offense/defense support. 3 Wars with Dark Fury up nearly constantly are a damn lot of offensive pressure (sometimes we gave them all Fear Me! too). If a ranger or the like wants to stick on you, just fall back behind your monk, you can hex/snare enemy melee from there and Dark Fury will still help your warriors. And Blurred-Shadow of Fear annoys warriors too!

Patrograd · Oct 17, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I think a stand water ele is a very strong character, one of those great utility characters that you can use either defensively or offensively as the need of the moment dictates.

Deep freeze is awesome pressure imo. At 14 water it is doing 80 damage across a huge AOE as well as snaring everyone in that AOE for a full 10 seconds making them easier for your warriors to get hits on.