Curse

Zui · Oct 15, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCreaMPiMP

OK, but this was for a player that was new to pvp... should he sit out of RA/TA/HA/Low level gvg until he's got a prefect pve char?

He could make a PvP that's ten times better than his PvE...

Yawgmoth · Oct 15, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

People post total nonsense in this thread.
Items (almost) don't matter in PvP, so if someone has a +14^50 sword with 20/19 sundering it doesnt change anything. This game is all about skill! Player skill, his set of skills - build and teamwork.
So please dont say pure BS like "He could make a PvP that's TEN times better than his PvE..." when the difference is more like 1-3%... And chances that this difference will affect the outcome of a match is even lower (much lower)
I'd create a pvp char myself anyway but it's not that big deal.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 15, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

People post total nonsense in this thread.
Items (almost) don't matter in PvP, so if someone has a +14^50 sword with 20/19 sundering it doesnt change anything. This game is all about skill! Player skill, his set of skills - build and teamwork.
So please dont say pure BS like "He could make a PvP that's TEN times better than his PvE..." when the difference is more like 1-3%... And chances that this difference will affect the outcome of a match is even lower (much lower)
I'd create a pvp char myself anyway but it's not that big deal.

The real question is, why not give yourself that 1-3%? Why pass up any advantage when it doesn't take any real effort to get that advantage?

Zui · Oct 15, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

The real question is, why not give yourself that 1-3%? Why pass up any advantage when it doesn't take any real effort to get that advantage?

Everyone knows that spending thirty entire seconds rolling a PvP charactar is MASSIVE work. I mean think of all the time spent, the amazing dedication to grind you need to have to do it is almost unbearable!

/end sarcasam

Align · Oct 15, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Unlocking the stuff is a bit more time consuming though...

stueyman2099 · Oct 15, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

People post total nonsense in this thread.
Items (almost) don't matter in PvP, so if someone has a +14^50 sword with 20/19 sundering it doesnt change anything. This game is all about skill! Player skill, his set of skills - build and teamwork.
So please dont say pure BS like "He could make a PvP that's TEN times better than his PvE..." when the difference is more like 1-3%... And chances that this difference will affect the outcome of a match is even lower (much lower)
I'd create a pvp char myself anyway but it's not that big deal.

A good player will take every advantage he can get, no matter how small.

Effigy · Oct 16, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Taking every available advantage is all well and good, but I think people are blowing things out of proportion here. Unless your PvE character is using really bad gear, I think the benefits outweigh the costs. Having 4 customized weapon slots is a clear advantage, even if the weapons are 14^50 or have +29hp fort mods. Sup vigor is more important, but I'd still opt for a major vigor and the 4 weapon slots if I had to choose.

Of course, if yor PvE equipment is not on par with what I just mentioned, then a PvP character is the best choice.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 16, 2006, 03:03 AM // 03:03

I would rather have the superior vigor, and warriors and rangers rarely use more than two weapons anyway. (vamp and elemental are all you really need, zealous is nice and you can always keep a wand or whatever in storage).

Monking it might be different, but if you're going to go ahead and get 4 near perfect weapons you really should get a superior vigor.

Red Locust · Oct 16, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

People post total nonsense in this thread.
Items (almost) don't matter in PvP, so if someone has a +14^50 sword with 20/19 sundering it doesnt change anything. This game is all about skill! Player skill, his set of skills - build and teamwork.
So please dont say pure BS like "He could make a PvP that's TEN times better than his PvE..." when the difference is more like 1-3%... And chances that this difference will affect the outcome of a match is even lower (much lower)
I'd create a pvp char myself anyway but it's not that big deal.

Here's an example. You've got a flag stand ele with a superior rune, a staff with +30hp and +20% enchants, and armor with +vs physical. Total health: 485

Now said ele notices that he's facing a pure spike team. Superior rune comes off, +60hp weapon set comes in, +health armor goes on. Total health: 625

140 extra health is nothing to laugh about. It can very easily make the difference between living or dying, and that's more than a 1-3% difference. To give a general idea, 5 obsidian flames do 560 damage clean..

Thom Bangalter · Oct 16, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

I almost always keep +health armor on, and I play ele A LOT. If you're running flags, the only time you really need some help is at the stand, and prot spirit is going to do a lot more for you than extra armor, and in the meantime you have a ton of health. Plus, superior runes are for nubs. The weapon is semi correct, though real men use swords. In this sense, pvp would work perfectly fine, I just use a pve character for the sex bomb factor.

Oct 16, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

yay. people that agree with me for a change. The flag runner in my guild runs like 4 armor sets including a while enchanted set. He claims with windborn prots etc, the universal bonus will not be strip as they wouldnt have enough enchant removal most of the time... So I'm sur ehe would argue that even on flag runners pve > pvp even at teh mere "functionally perfect" level. Not to mention more weapons means a fort sord of energy and a enchant for e prodigies as a switch set and still having a wand set and shields, so yeah, I'd take all that and have to deal with 29 hp mods. But I'll step out of teh conversation as I've helped to highjack the thread considerably. Can we all be friends now?

LightningHell · Oct 16, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I almost always keep +health armor on, and I play ele A LOT. If you're running flags, the only time you really need some help is at the stand, and prot spirit is going to do a lot more for you than extra armor, and in the meantime you have a ton of health. Plus, superior runes are for nubs. The weapon is semi correct, though real men use swords. In this sense, pvp would work perfectly fine, I just use a pve character for the sex bomb factor.

/agree

Although I would LOVE to revamp Crest's face and height...

Thom Bangalter · Oct 16, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I want new hair, because factions hair>phropecies, otherwise I'm fine. The simple fact that I can armor swap to whatever is quite nice, I do of course keep aeromancer (my first set of armor ever) and a set of armor vs physical, but I rarely use them. If I'm at the stand more then the swaps are nice, but again, not used very often.

I think monks benefit the most from armor swaps and more weapons, because they are the key target on the field, since this game has largely become two to three warriors bashing the other team while 4-5 other players try to prvent the other team from mitigating the warrior damage. Nerf warriors, imo.

Red Locust · Oct 17, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I almost always keep +health armor on, and I play ele A LOT. If you're running flags, the only time you really need some help is at the stand, and prot spirit is going to do a lot more for you than extra armor, and in the meantime you have a ton of health. Plus, superior runes are for nubs. The weapon is semi correct, though real men use swords. In this sense, pvp would work perfectly fine, I just use a pve character for the sex bomb factor.

If you're playing ele, you should be using a superior energy storage whenever you run back to spam heal parties and such. You'd also have your +20%enchant staff and your +15e/15e set in addition to your +60hp set, and imo an extra +35hp on your armor is not really worth taking over the +10armor vs physical unless you're facing pure spike teams.

This is all stuff in which you're limited in one way or another unless you're using a pve char. So yeah, pvp would work fine, but pve would work much finer :P
And this is just for an ele. Some of the other classes have it much more complicated.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 17, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

+60 hp set? Dunno what you're talking about. Razarjan's fervor/straw effigy slot 1, slot 2 high armor set (jacqui's aegis and charr sword) which Is what I primary stay in when I'm power running, slot 3 is again the fervor, though this time with a +15/-1 offhand, and slot 4 is a staff of enchanting. I've never had a problem energy wise, Swap up to cast deep freeze or something "big", get off a prodigy, and swap to the low set. I also keep a 20/20 healing staff for hp spamming. But honestly, my high armor set more than compensates for +10 vs physical, and prot spirit is a huge asset.

Lena A · Oct 17, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Use a PvE character WITH PERFECT EQUIPMENT. That is the point I was trying to make.

There is no use to have extremly perfect weapons imo.
14^50, ench +19% hp +29 energy+14/regen -1 are enough and won't make any differences during the fight (well that's the kind of mods I and people from my guild use).

A warrior from my guild used to fight with a 13^50 sword and I don't think we ever missed a kill because of that.

Of course Sup vigor is absolutely necessary but that's all.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 17, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

the point JR is trying to make, and I sometimes try when I'm not getting sidetracked by ele talk, is that there is no reason to use a pve character with imperfect weapons when perfect weapons are so common and cheap, and that by using imperfect weapons you're not giving yourself any sort of advantage and actually detract from the bonus you get having a pve guy pvp ready (and I'm not talking about you having a 1337 +10 armor vs slashing, I'm just talking about four common weaponslots). Seriously, you can get a 15^50 sword from crafters, and req 12 or 13 items are practically free. The only two things you need to splurge on are: superior vigor, and perfect fortitude mods. I'll go ahead and give leeway on the fortitude mods because they are expensive and I think one hp is a good trade off for weapon swapping and helm swapping, but otherwise, you're defeating the purpose.

Lena A · Oct 17, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

the point JR is trying to make, and I sometimes try when I'm not getting sidetracked by ele talk, is that there is no reason to use a pve character with imperfect weapons when perfect weapons are so common and cheap, and that by using imperfect weapons you're not giving yourself any sort of advantage

Well I would say that GW is still a game even in the top20 or so, and if I think it's funnier for me to play GvG with my nearly perfect with beautifull weapons/armors PvE char, I'll do it, and I will allow any member of my guild to do the same. I don't play with a PvE char for armor swapping, or weapons.

You can still stay competitive with nearly perfect items.
1-2%/1-2hp/armor swapping are just details which won't change the final result, and PvE chars are more beautifull.

that's my opinion ^^

Thomas.knbk · Oct 17, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Some PvE weapons are better than PvP ones (old denravi axe comes to mind, some greens as well)
I just use a PvE character because I once mindlessly deleted a PvP one with (expensive) PvE weapons on him.
"Warning: This character still has items in his/her inventory. Are you sure you wish to delete this character?" would be nice

JR · Oct 17, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena A

Well I would say that GW is still a game even in the top20 or so, and if I think it's funnier for me to play GvG with my nearly perfect with beautifull weapons/armors PvE char, I'll do it, and I will allow any member of my guild to do the same. I don't play with a PvE char for armor swapping, or weapons.

You can still stay competitive with nearly perfect items.
1-2%/1-2hp/armor swapping are just details which won't change the final result, and PvE chars are more beautifull.

that's my opinion ^^

You could potentially (but admittedly are unlikely to) lose a game due to an imperfect mod. Such as getting spiked down to 1 hp with a +30 mod, just before the res timer. With a +29 mod you would have been killed and base-ressed, possibly leading to a team wipe and game over.

Yes that is not a very likely situation, but it COULD happen. That alone should be enough for a competitive player.