Curse

Thom Bangalter · Oct 13, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

1. Loki is correct, just get the high req stuff for cheap; a perfect 15^50 req 13 hammer or sword or axe is going to hit and crit as any other req, the only number that matters for damage is weaponmastery attribute.

Ice cream, I disagree with your post. If you're going to use a pve character, you need to have perfect equipment as far as mods go. There's no reason to gimp yourself on those numbers when a pve character is going to have perfect weapons.

Of course, with the multitude of greens out there it should be a non-issue, especially hammers (you really only need a vamp hammer and an elemental hammer).

Oct 13, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Well, I have never actually seen 1 hp make a difference in any gvg i was in. So on teh 14 over 50 where a hundred damage spike might get to 101, I don't see the 100k splurge on teh 15 over 50 as worth it. Also, there is simply a point where the versatility of pve weapon and armor sets is far better than 9 hps from a run 1 hp from a fort mods and 1 damage on huge damage spikes. So you can change your mind or we can agree to disagree i guess. =)

JR · Oct 13, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCreaMPiMP

Well, I have never actually seen 1 hp make a difference in any gvg i was in. So on teh 14 over 50 where a hundred damage spike might get to 101, I don't see the 100k splurge on teh 15 over 50 as worth it. Also, there is simply a point where the versatility of pve weapon and armor sets is far better than 9 hps from a run 1 hp from a fort mods and 1 damage on huge damage spikes. So you can change your mind or we can agree to disagree i guess. =)

If you aren't bothered about the difference between 15^50 or 14^50... hell, why not go for 13^50! Even cheaper!

Or not. The simple fact is that a competitive player should be trying for every single edge they can get, down to the last point. If you are bothered about price, then get 15^50 collectors gear to use in PvP. I would never group with someone so casual about PvP as to use imperfect equipment.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 13, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you aren't bothered about the difference between 15^50 or 14^50... hell, why not go for 13^50! Even cheaper!

Or not. The simple fact is that a competitive player should be trying for every single edge they can get, down to the last point. If you are bothered about price, then get 15^50 collectors gear to use in PvP. I would never group with someone so casual about PvP as to use imperfect equipment.

agreed. One of our mesmers was rolling with a hct 8% health +28 offhand and I was sad. There's a great thread here, and on team iQ's forums on getting characters pvp ready, and collector's and greens are so insanely easy to get.

I'll repeat myself, if you're going to use a pve guy get perfect equipment or there's no point in using it. (exceptions are made of course, because a +5 energy crippling recurve bow is nice, but any crippling bow with perfect mods is just as good).

Armor swaps are great, and the main advantage to using pve characters, but armor swaps aren't used as much as one would think, whereas your gear is used nonstop. (I have never swapped out of +health armor on my ele, my jacqui's aegis and charr sword are enough after I cap and try to get the hell out of there).

sir lockt · Oct 13, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

I can remember the day I finally got enough money for that sup vigor... 100k for 9 hp (I know the price is lower now

)... that day we fought GvG and ended up with 8hp when I escaped the block...

On the armor swaps: My inventory is almost full now... and I use it often in GvG. Especially versus spikes its very usefull... my head gear (normal with sup) has another color then my head gear (minor rune) so I can swap quickly. Also health armor, phys armor and elem armor swaps on monks might be valuable in certain situations, although its for me mostly the swap to minor runes.

You load yourself with a lot of useless stuff...thats granted... but its nice to have it with you in specific situations. I agree with JR that you should grab any edge you can get...

oww and pls dont ask me to do the math on the difference of a 14^50 and a 15^50 weapon over an entire match... I can assure you...thats huge (unless your base damage is 0

its not all spike out there... sometimes pressure is your handle to victory )

Ec]-[oMaN · Oct 13, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir lockt

oww and pls dont ask me to do the math on the difference of a 14^50 and a 15^50 weapon over an entire match... I can assure you...thats huge (unless your base damage is 0

its not all spike out there... sometimes pressure is your handle to victory )

Someone did a calculation over time with axe 14^50 and 15^50, he came to the conclusion that even over time the 14^50 did the same amount of damage as the 15^50 because of the way GW rounds up and down the final damage calculation. Neither weapon could hit the higher/lower number in order to round up/down.

JR · Oct 13, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Someone did a calculation over time with axe 14^50 and 15^50, he came to the conclusion that even over time the 14^50 did the same amount of damage as the 15^50 because of the way GW rounds up and down the final damage calculation. Neither weapon could hit the higher/lower number in order to round up/down.

I've seen calculations that show at a certain level 15^50 will give you one more point of damage than a 14^50 would. I can't remember specifics, and haven't personally checked it, but that is good enough for me to only use 15^50.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 13, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

JUST GET A HIGH REQ 15^50. This is only if skins are really desirable to you, personally I just like being able to go anywhere with my elementalist to do various things without having to reroll, plus having armor swaps, weapon slots, and the generally ability to be a badass.

anyway, you can get a req12 or req 13 mursaat hammer, fellblade, or whatever the hell else you want for dirt cheap if you desire skins that badly, the only thing that's really going to set you back is a perfect non-green shield, but if you're that picky about shield skins then you need to actually play pvp, not pretend to.

Rera · Oct 13, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

It's obvious that you can save a lot of money by going with greens/collectors. It's equally obvious, however, that the GW economy is built on vanity, and a lot of people care a lot about how their characters look and the rarity of the weapons they have.

The point of my previous post wasn't to say that you *must* spend that kind of money to be PvP-ready, but that if you want to satisfy the same vanity that most people have in PvE, you should be prepared to pay that kind of money. Obviously, if you don't care so much about how you look, it cuts down on the expense by entire orders of magnitude.

Clamatius · Oct 13, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Not just to the original poster but in general: if you want to play PvP but are still at the point where you think a monk with daggers is a good plan or Mending is a good PvP skill, then you're much better off sticking with a PvP character that you can re-roll at will. Spend all those zillions of farming hours that you'd spend equipping a PvE character actually playing PvP. You'll get better a hell of a lot faster and hopefully get a deeper understanding of the game.

Experience > equipment.

Desires · Oct 13, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

The biggest thing I can advise is know your enemy in pvp especialy ra people tend to bring alot of readable builds and mainy are the premades. Their not bad builds but knowing what your up against helps alot for example when I'm monking and see a starburst group(this is in ha) I imidatly start casting Protective spirt on me and other casters so they can't spike as effectivly.
This can be applied in ra aswell lets say I see a R/N charging at me I get my fingure over distracting blow so I can nail the throw dirt which is usally their first move against a warrior and most will save their stance until after throw dirt or you start hitting them so its usally doable.

Also consider how to make your build self realiant while being able to still dish out damage. No build can counter everything but you can ork on effective ways to work with your weakness. What hurts warriors hexs condtions and stances. Well Wild blow can deal with stances it costs adrenail so has to be used carefuly.

Example you just get hit by a crip shot ranger you got posion and cripple on you both have low duration but can be reaplied continously. With a warrior nec who has plauge touch sure you can get rid of blind but cripple effectivly makes it challenging to remove this way. Plauge sigent works but you have to sacrfice your elite. Lets say your pure adrenail (Bad idea imo) so you bring purge sigent with its cast time the ranger can easily interupt it and diasble it for awhile. Purge condtions long recharge. ANd it goes on all those can help versus blind weakness ext though it makes this situation harsh. I in this situation would infact perfer something like resilant weapon as it conter acts his ability to degen you and gives you a nice armor boost. Now take a blond bot in his place resalint won't do much good. Another option is to bring a wand to bring adrenalin while crippled or snared and even if it keeps up you should be able to get close enough to another enmie to let a few attack skills off.

The Omniscient · Oct 13, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

There are so many things in pvp that it'll take a while to learn them all. Some of the biggest things are knowing what you're fighting against and tactics to beating builds/

comonnow · Oct 13, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

what sort of PvE character class would be most easy to get going for PvP?

I would think monk. as they are always needed. or perhaps ritualist?

the cool thing about monks are that almost all their armors rock... i dont know...

Mo/A sounds interesting... with dabbling in healing and dagger mastery. could be a funny combo.

Um, ok.

If you want to PvP effectively, dont worry about PvE char man. Everyone has said this numerous times so just forget your pve char right now. Now, Mo/A do not use daggers... they are monks, healing/prot. The reason they use Assasin secondary is for dark escape and return, so you are able to avoid damage.

Now, if you are dead set on playing a pve char, and u choose warrior and monk, you have now chosen the two most expesive characters to equip for PvP, so i recommend goin with a PvP char again (who cares about looks).

For warrior these are a good place to start:

Full glads armor, with stoneskin gauntlets
Full Beserkers armor.
2 helmets for each weapon attribute, with sup and minor weapon attribute on them. This is useful for facing spikes and fighting at VoD but it also lets you escape some sticky situations, like your monk is half an aggro bubble out of range when ur falling back from an over-extension or any situation when ur about to die, swap to minor rune and u get 75 health and ur able to get to your monk for heals)

Axe/Sword/Hammer ALL 15>50 with vamp and elemental hafts and all with +30 HP. i recommend a zealous axe and sword for energy intensive builds like plague touch or builds with prot strike etc.

perfect shields with +30 HP ALWAYS and either -2dmg instance or -5 (20%)

I have sundering mods to use when im not vamping or need to run flags etc, and personally i like them, they arent garbage.

For Monk (a little less experienced)

a +5 energy sword with +30 HP mod, a -5 energy sword with +30 HP mod a +5 energy>50% wand and a +15 energy-1 regen wand and a 20% skill recharge of inspiration magic wand

shield with +30 HP always, a +15energy-1regen +30 HP offhand, a 20% skill recharge inspiration and a normal energy offhand most likely with +30 HP always.

2 sets of armor, 1 +HP and one of you choice of +armor vs physical or +armor while enchanted (for boon prots generally)

if you dont have the money for that just rolla pvp char, then u cant delete him to use another type of character etc.

or go to work and make 50-60 dollars or ask mommy for it, go to www.ebay.com and buy 1000k gold and get it that way. I recommend just rolling a pvp char tho.

Anyway, I would also suggest going to XoO and getting trained in PvP, it will help a tremendous amount, and will be well worth the effort. If you arent willing to spend countless hours trying to get prepared for the PvP in GW then you arent going to go anywhere with it. It is very in depth. I have about 2k hours on my account over the last 10 months, and still learn things every day.

Anyway if you choose to go play WoW gl to you, but i feel sorry for you b/c im not a huge fan of mindless games like that.

Seltack · Oct 13, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

You don't need sundering at all. You use your elemental weapon to run around with. And large amounts of calculation show it is garbage. Only real reason is something like a ranger spike back up bow (a longer range one for running around/long distance spikes) when using orders so you can't take elemental, and when you sometimes need a quick spike at a more distant target while on the move.

Oct 14, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you aren't bothered about the difference between 15^50 or 14^50... hell, why not go for 13^50! Even cheaper!

Or not. The simple fact is that a competitive player should be trying for every single edge they can get, down to the last point. If you are bothered about price, then get 15^50 collectors gear to use in PvP. I would never group with someone so casual about PvP as to use imperfect equipment.

But now you are talking about the absolute top level whereas this player wants to use a pve in pvp(I believe that is obvious enough). So yes, if we were in a tourney setting no my mursaat hammer at 14 over 50 migh tnot make it into my weapon slots and we would all be running sup runes of vigor. But Pve is a gradual thing for most players and I believe there comes a point where a "imperfect" pve outperforms a "perfect" pvp char. I'd take 3 14 over 50s (say zelaous vamp and elemental) and a wanding set over two 15 over 50 weapons any day of the week. So would most top players I'd imagine. If I were laddering I'd take two armor sets with minor vigs and proper shields and hat swaps as opposed to the extra 9 health from a single set on a pvp. My point is that PvE outperforms PvP and is, yes, sorry to say it -- more fun; on top of this it outperforms the pvp at a sooner level than those who would insist you stay out of the guild hall until you have 3 perfect armor sets etc. This think I believe does fall under getting any advantage at your disposal at a given moment as well.

Oct 14, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Sorry I am not good with the editing thing. I meant major vigs not minors...

master_of_puppets · Oct 14, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Here's one thing. Don't make up your own builds for PvP if you're new because chances are you'll come up with something rather dumb... like monk using daggers

. USE builds that are already known/popular until you have at least some understanding of Pvp.

Wow. I didnt read all the posts but how did a thread about someone wanting to start PvP turn into a bunch of dumbasses arguing about the miniscule advantages of perfect mods vs. perfect - 1 mods...

JR · Oct 14, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCreaMPiMP

So yes, if we were in a tourney setting no my mursaat hammer at 14 over 50 migh tnot make it into my weapon slots and we would all be running sup runes of vigor.

You have to GET to a Tourney first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCreaMPiMP

But Pve is a gradual thing for most players and I believe there comes a point where a "imperfect" pve outperforms a "perfect" pvp char. I'd take 3 14 over 50s (say zelaous vamp and elemental) and a wanding set over two 15 over 50 weapons any day of the week.

This is not about picking the better of two bad options; it is about playing with every edge you can get. No, do not use a PvP Warrior with only two weapons sets, but do not use a PvE with imperfect equipment either. Use a PvE character WITH PERFECT EQUIPMENT. That is the point I was trying to make.

Oct 15, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

OK, but this was for a player that was new to pvp... should he sit out of RA/TA/HA/Low level gvg until he's got a prefect pve char?

Yanman.be · Oct 15, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

No, he should make a pvp character.