Curse

Mary Maiden · Oct 24, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

hello all this is a build for ha 6 man teams that should give some of the popular teams in ha a run for their money. mezmers apply within. flame, criticize, correct as you see fit. please point out poor nrg manegment as this has not been completely tested. I was looking for some constructive feedback before i put forth all that work testing something that was failed to begin with. I'm leaving out most weapons and armor as it should be pretty obvious for experienced players and only exp players with comms should prob use this build.

here goes:

Warrior Hate:
Me/W
ATT:
Fast cast 8+1
Domination 11+1+1
Insperation 8+1
Tactics 9

Note: use a wand and tactics shield of choice with secondary NRG boosting wand

Skills
Mind wrack
Spirit shakles
Empathy
Heal sig/watch yourself
(E) Auspicious Parry
Bonetties Defense
Shield Bash
Res sig

Usage:
This build should be able to make two warriors hate themselves. First cast spirit shakles/mind wrack/empathy on one warrior/ranger/assasin. then switch to another target and repeat. if they attack through spirit shakles then they will soon be hurting because of mind wrack. you can bring heal sig or watch urself for more team support. when any war or sin targets you, use shield bash folowed by auspacious parry to really mess up their spike and disable thier elite/lead attack. boneties defens is good for nrg regain but only if ur a focus of attack.

Caster Hate
El/Me
ATT:
NRG store: 10+1+1
Insperation: 10
Dommination: 11

Skills
Mind wrack
Backfire
Guild
(E)Power leach
Power leak
Leach signet
Mantra of signets
rez sig

Usage: find an offensive caster and use backfire then mind wrack, find another and use guilt then mind wrack. let them cast one spell and after it fails use power leech and power leak to interupt. then switch back to backfired foe and use mantra of signets and leach signet twice to keep up the interupts. Not sure if mantra of signets recharges rez sig or not but that would be interesting.

Monk Hate
Me/Mo
ATT:
Dom 11+1+1
Illusion 11+1
Fast cast 8+1

Skills
Backfire
diversion
(E) power block
shame
mind wrack
drain enchant
inspiered enchant

Usage: backfire first monk or defensive caster and cover with diversion and mindwrack. hopefully they will cast and divert their hex removal spell(for next backfire). then switch to other monk if their is one and power block a spell to disable heal or prot attribute. then use shame and mind wrack. drain enchants from monks as they try to recast for extra nrg

Famine necro
N/R
ATT:
Soul reap 8+1
Death 10+1+1
Wild survival 12

skills:
Well of profane
consume corpse
(E) famine
dust trap
healing spring
snare
troll ungrent
rez sig

Usage: not to sure with this one. but here it goes, lay famine out and protect with dust trap. this way when foes nrg reaches 0 they take 30 dam + dam from mind wrack. use well of profane for big enchant teams like duel smite. manage nrg with consume corpse. use snares and healing springs (call healing spring) to stop gankers and help people in ur back line kite while being healed.

Warder
E/N
ATT
Curse 12
earth 9+1+1
NRG storage 9+1
Blood 3

Skills:
Malase
Parasetic bond
Well of weariness
Ward against elements
Ward against melee
Aura of restoration
blood renual
Rez Sig

Usage: keep aura of restore up to negate health degen from malase. blood renewal is also used for this. just spam malase and parasetic bond all over the place (4 people at least) and put up wards when necessary for backline. well of weariness if a profane well is already up for more nrg degen.

Secret healer
E/Mo
ATT
nrg storage 12+1+1
healing 12

skills
aura of resotration
heal party
heal other
healing seed
healing touch
infuse health
ether renewal
rez sig

Usage: um... heal others who need it. use ether renewal after u have aura of restoration and healing seed on you for extra nrg and health when you really need it. try to stay around rangers snares or in wards and wells to create probs for attackers.

so what do u think?

Teh Mighty Warrior · Oct 24, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Yea...I'm not even going to attempt to list what needs work, I only have about an hour or two to spare.

comonnow · Oct 24, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

This is a joke right?

BowLad21 · Oct 24, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I've got a second, so we'll start with Ether Renewal. And how no one in their right mind runs it. Then we'll go on to the warrior hate. Any team with two Mo/Me can easily handle mind wrack/spirit shackles. You chose your elite on your mesmer to stop a spike. That's silly and unnecessary. I'll leave a few characters and move on to a couple serious issues. Power Block. While sounding wonderful, you can't use it again for 30 seconds. If you use it at all, it will help, but monks carry things of different attributes.

Vax · Oct 24, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

the build is worthless

Lord Mendes · Oct 24, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I can see what you are trying to do with this build, but in all fairness it is a bad idea and will never ever work.
Your condition removal is piss, and seeing as the FoTM is dual ranger condition builds you wont go far. You have no consistant ghostly interupts, all you have is a mantra of signets + leech sig combo.
Aura of restoration is ALWAYS a bad idea, healing touch without divine favor is laughable. Both mesmers carry some pretty energy intensive builds and will most likely run out of energy pretty fast. Jesus you dont even have an offhand on your first mesmer, no energy ftl. Your first mesmer should b completely reworked, the idea is nice but not at all practical, if you r gonna have a Me/W at least carry a shields up. I would use foes on the warder instead of elements, and stability instead of one of those BS skills.
You have no raw damage and relying on killing ur targets by draining em is not really ideal. Any condition team will kill u in 1 minute.
Ether prodigy > ether renewal so i was assuming you meant that. That n/r is better off being a r/n.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but in all fairness i dont see how this build can win anything.

EDIT: now that i look at it the enemy team is gonna see a Me/W, E/Mes, Me/Mo, N/R, E/N and E/Mo and they r gonna think you are some noob EU1 spike team, and sad thing is that the euroway ele spike would probably do better than this.

Zui · Oct 24, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Someone needs to post a Fail picture.

Lord Mendes · Oct 24, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Someone needs to post a Fail picture.

waiting on JR

~Vanilla~ · Oct 24, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Wait, wait.
I have a good one.

Teh Mighty Warrior · Oct 24, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

waiting on JR

Jr is a little late today isn't he? He usually closes these kinds of builds within seconds of their creation.

Mary Maiden · Oct 25, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

okay i was kind of in a hurry when i finished this up at work. but ill try to explain the concept

mind wrack + famine is about 100 damage each time enemy's mana is 0
with enough nrg degen and interupts and shut down enemys will waiste nrg and screw up their entire plan for nrg manegment.

the basic idea is to shut down at least 50-75% of the other teams offensive ability. leaving them to keep using energy and depleting their health.

the best offense is a good defense and i dont see many builds that can obliterate this system. every one has room for a rez, and it may not have true hall holding potental i think it will take most any -r5 group out there.

it also develops confusion when their is not a clear target to take out initially with no monk. some builds may be fixed to use energy but i think the potential is still there

the first mezmers nrg should last quite awhile.
it takes 40 nrg to cast the first two spell combos taking about 9 seconds.
then wand attacks will fuel watch yourself to add armor to the whole team. the idea of the war hate is to draw the attention of the warriors. once they know you are killing them with the shakles they should target you. then you disable their skills/knock them down/ and prevent their attacks for your energy gain. if you dont get attacked then you contine to cast spirit shakles and mind wrack on enemys. thats only 5 nrg skills that they spam. if a war calls his spirit shackles the monk will remove the hex, and only remove fragility, thinking he is safe. then he still has mind wrack to get to the ss

if all 6 people have mind wrack and all 6 people have low nrg they are gonna take damage or not produce enough damage. you can disable a monks smite or heal or prot skills you take alot out of him, while caneling his next spell with shame and the other monk has backfire on him with his next spell diverted.

the malase and parasetic bond is a universal cover hex to be cast on already hexed foes. but ward of foes would be better but would serve just like the n/r's snare traps.

the n/r is not doing offensive trapping, he is protecting the back line and stripping dual smites, and other builds enchantments with well of profane.

so you have a whole team with an over load of hexes w/ no way of telling what hex is on what person. and really does a back line in ha take more than 4 hex removals? health degen from conditions could not take this team down. only heavy hex teams could because of the lack of healing/hex removal.

ether renewal is cast with aura of rest activated and after healing seed to make a total of 3 enchantements. this gives you 6 nrg and a lil health for every spell you cast to make up for he lack of divine favor on heal touch and help you cast party and infuse health if their is a spike team.

seriously their is no direct damage, just armor ignoring persisstant damage for any proffesion to continue to inflict damage on this build.

try that me/w build in ra or ta for war hate and see how it works to take down the rampart wars, sins, and rangers. people will think you are IW mez. the lack of off hand item will pay off with +36(shield armor + watch yourslef) when attacks do get through and shield bash will also protect you.

and no it dont sound harsh, you were the only one who took 5 mins to respond while others read the skills and said i was RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded

Vax · Oct 25, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Maiden

okay i was kind of in a hurry when i finished this up at work. but ill try to explain the concept

mind wrack + famine is about 100 damage each time enemy's mana is 0
with enough nrg degen and interupts and shut down enemys will waiste nrg and screw up their entire plan for nrg manegment.

the basic idea is to shut down at least 50-75% of the other teams offensive ability. leaving them to keep using energy and depleting their health.

the best offense is a good defense and i dont see many builds that can obliterate this system. every one has room for a rez, and it may not have true hall holding potental i think it will take most any -r5 group out there.

it also develops confusion when their is not a clear target to take out initially with no monk. some builds may be fixed to use energy but i think the potential is still there

the first mezmers nrg should last quite awhile.
it takes 40 nrg to cast the first two spell combos taking about 9 seconds.
then wand attacks will fuel watch yourself to add armor to the whole team. the idea of the war hate is to draw the attention of the warriors. once they know you are killing them with the shakles they should target you. then you disable their skills/knock them down/ and prevent their attacks for your energy gain. if you dont get attacked then you contine to cast spirit shakles and mind wrack on enemys. thats only 5 nrg skills that they spam. if a war calls his spirit shackles the monk will remove the hex, and only remove fragility, thinking he is safe. then he still has mind wrack to get to the ss

if all 6 people have mind wrack and all 6 people have low nrg they are gonna take damage or not produce enough damage. you can disable a monks smite or heal or prot skills you take alot out of him, while caneling his next spell with shame and the other monk has backfire on him with his next spell diverted.

the malase and parasetic bond is a universal cover hex to be cast on already hexed foes. but ward of foes would be better but would serve just like the n/r's snare traps.

the n/r is not doing offensive trapping, he is protecting the back line and stripping dual smites, and other builds enchantments with well of profane.

so you have a whole team with an over load of hexes w/ no way of telling what hex is on what person. and really does a back line in ha take more than 4 hex removals? health degen from conditions could not take this team down. only heavy hex teams could because of the lack of healing/hex removal.

ether renewal is cast with aura of rest activated and after healing seed to make a total of 3 enchantements. this gives you 6 nrg and a lil health for every spell you cast to make up for he lack of divine favor on heal touch and help you cast party and infuse health if their is a spike team.

seriously their is no direct damage, just armor ignoring persisstant damage for any proffesion to continue to inflict damage on this build.

try that me/w build in ra or ta for war hate and see how it works to take down the rampart wars, sins, and rangers. people will think you are IW mez. the lack of off hand item will pay off with +36(shield armor + watch yourslef) when attacks do get through and shield bash will also protect you.

and no it dont sound harsh, you were the only one who took 5 mins to respond while others read the skills and said i was RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded

Yea it does that 100 damage if they reach the 0 energy limit which isnt going to happen instantly at the start of the match and most likely wont happen ever in the match if they know how to take out the spirit and know how to manage their energy

considering the fact the most r5 groups cant even get passed underworld makes me laugh at that comment.

have you heard of inspired hex revealed hex remove hex or holy veil ever?
or how about even just killing the famine spirit
also considering 40 nrg in 9 seconds is laughable and is worthless

malaise is worthless ever since people found out how to bring more than 1 weapon set

a N/R trapper with nothing to protect himself/herself while throwing the traps down is possibley the stupidest thing ive ever seen on guildwars

ether boon or whatever the hell its called will give you a more efficent amount of energy than ether renewal ... ether renewal doesnt work on anything really except a E/Mo smiter... (wihch are of course now a dead breed)

The Me/W is worthless and does basically nothing for the build except for maybe a hex here and there.. but its easy to remove and easy to not use all ur energy
bonettties defense roflmao

the last sentence doenst even make sense at all

that is why your build is a joke
because it has no offensive capability because of
Interupts
People killing your Famine spirit in about 4 seconds after its put down
Hex Removal
Other teams killiling 1 of ur people 10 minutes a player (lmao)

Honestly if you even attempt to run this build you wouldnt even last 1 minute in the Underworld...

Riotgear · Oct 25, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vax

malaise is worthless ever since people found out how to bring more than 1 weapon set

If this build's theory worked, then bringing a second weapon set would just mean setting off wrack and famine more. Bad counter-point.

I could tear this down too, but the biggest problem is that the skill selection is bad (i.e. Bonetti's, Ether Renewal, Ward Against Elements), its defense is too thin, and its offense is too interdependent. That and it's overelaborate, lacking strength in any given department. And of course, why are you running an E/Mo instead of a real monk?

If you want a successful team build, you should start with one that already works, realize why it works, and start making modifications to it slowly until you wind up with something unpredictable yet still effective. Creating builds from scratch, especially ones that pretend the opposing team isn't going to counter anything you're doing, doesn't work.

Kabale · Oct 25, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

I would definately start off with 4 'offensive' characters and 2 monks, otherwise, and considering you're low ranked and your 1 monk may not be that great, you will get raped in Underworld.

Running two monks when HA was still 8vs8 was still a 'crazy' thing to do, but was nonetheless doable if you packed lots of shutdown (snares, interrupts, hexes, etc.). But running 1 monk is meh. I think you should always have a 2-monk minimum, except for in TA & 4v4 obviously (where other members of your team will be carrying enough support for you to survive on your own). I mean, what can 1 monk do when he's KD-chained?

Anyway, getting back to the OP's build, I doubt it would work. I'd like to see this against one of those dual smite with A/W though, but as mentioned, once you reach a ranger-condition team, they'll see who's bothering them (Me/W spirit shackles) and just dshot your next attempt at casting it (which would still be 1 1/2-2 sec with fast cast, so not terribly difficult at all). Once that's done, and the hexes will get removed, they're free to pressure, and with 1 monk, that pressure is going to be pretty obvious real fast.

Mary Maiden · Oct 25, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

okay i admit its messed up, but i kind of misread a skill

for some reason i read mind wrack as causing the damage each and every time their nrg reaches 0, not the next time. so having to recast that is kind of a pain. with 2 targets you must look for the 80 (or whatever the damage is) and then re cast on that target.

i did try out the me/w in RA (and i know that doesnt mean much for ha) but it worked pretty well. smart melee would just run around till shakles wore off and dumb ones were completly stumped. they would run up and frenzy me and have their elite disabled for 15 secs from shield bash, get knocked down, and take 214 damage (80*2 from MW + 27*2 from empathy) on the first swing. then i would keep casting mind wrack and auspacious parry to finish them off. then the other war or assasin would rush me and id use bonetties to block while i got shakles off. after 1 hour of practice i had 3 war's curse me out and one assasin ask me if i was some kind of anit assasin build.

Lykan · Oct 25, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Maiden

i did try out the me/w in RA (and i know that doesnt mean much for ha)

The first rule of high end pvp is
"forget everything you know about RA and TA and PvE"

Most builds that seems great in RA will get torn apart in HA

Legendary Shiz · Oct 25, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

The first rule of high end pvp is
"forget everything you know about RA and TA and PvE"

Most builds that seems great in RA will get torn apart in HA

Please don't bash TA, it still can be competitive high end pvp.

But yeah, RA and PvE = useless in most pvp.

Lord Mendes · Oct 25, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vax

that is why your build is a joke
because it has no offensive capability because of
Interupts
People killing your Famine spirit in about 4 seconds after its put down
Hex Removal
Other teams killiling 1 of ur people 10 minutes a player (lmao)

those r just minor setbacks. The main reason why this build wouldnt work imo is that you have absolutely no condition removal in a very condition heavy metagame. You will simply die...

Legendary Shiz · Oct 25, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

those r just minor setbacks. The main reason why this build wouldnt work imo is that you have absolutely no condition removal in a very condition heavy metagame. You will simply die...

Exactly, since 6v6 the meta has changed to condition heavy. This build will get torn apart by all the condition heavy rangers running around nowadays.