Curse

master_of_puppets · Sep 25, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

After trying out the dervish for the first time (I wasnt playing GW during the summer so I missed the 1st preview event) and quickly looking through all the skills, Im starting to wonder how the dervish will be used in PvP, specifically HA and GvG. When you look at assassins, they werent used in HA at all, and only a few guilds used them in their GvG build and that was mostly for NPC ganking and such.

With the dervish are people just gonna use one of those "Avatar of (insert god's name here)" skills and hope they pwn before it runs out?

For one thing I didnt see any interrupts or KD in the dervish skill list. OK, so you hit 2 people instead of 1 with your melee attack. Great... doesnt mean anything if you cant do shit about that monk casting heal party.... So are people gonna have to use specific 2ndary profs for this, maybe go D/E for shock or something.

Also I only saw 1 or 2 IAS skills, and they werent great either. The dervish attack speed does seem to be somewhat slow so to fix that you might need to go D/W or D/R.

Dervish also had a lot of skills relating to enchantments, but I doubt they'll be used as a caster with 25 energy or whatever it was.

And I hate those stupid "Form" skills. They're just too Un-GuildWars-ish... Turning into something else and becoming a demi-god, stupid... I'm not saying theyre overpowered but yeah...

JiggyFly · Sep 26, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

All the Dervish I played against had alot of damage, but the threat just wasn't there, nothing that a little bit of kiting and a few heals wouldn't take care of.

Sure a few good oens posed a threat in GvG, but the spike still wasn't there, mind you I wasn't about to let them just rage all over me, but without stuff like Shock, Bulls strike, Deep Wound it just seemed like kiting against them was ridiculous easy, even with that cripple enchantment they have.

Almost seems liek they're a one man smite, lots of AoE and consistent damage, but at the end of the day it's not something incredibly useful, when you scale it to what the other classes can dow ith their Nightfall skills.

Arkantos · Sep 26, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Not sure if it got nerfed from last preview event, but D/Mo with CoP owned. They'd use a bunch of enchantments that did damage/conditions when they ended, then used CoP to end all enchantments. Bam, massive AoE damage.

Riotgear · Sep 26, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Mysticism got nerfed from 3hp/1e per level to 1hp/level and 1e per 2 levels, CoP will only burn one hex/condition unless you're a monk.

Their attacks are slow, they're vulnerable to anti-spellcaster builds, anti-melee builds, AND their armor is gimp.

I'm sure people will find a use for them, that and I'm not too familiar with their skill set, but so far I've been really unimpressed.

cookiemonkie · Sep 26, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

You'll see then as as monks. High mysticism, earth and protection prayers to spam out rev fortune, guardian, imbue health, signet of piety as well as the mysticism elite energy enchantment.... you could spam prot and heals all day pretty much with no energy problems.

Guardian of the Light · Sep 26, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Facts:

The dervish has the only SPAMMABLE attack to inflict deep wound

The dervish has a defalt spinning attack that effect all targets around them.

The dervish is very good when it has enchantments on it (either from itself or a friend).

However no one had any idea how rits and sins would fit in PvP when they were first indroduced to us. How do you think this will any different?

Apok Omen · Sep 26, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Cookie, that is only if the enchantment is on the Dervish, not all. Besides, no profession can replace the monks healing, never.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 26, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

However no one had any idea how rits and sins would fit in PvP when they were first indroduced to us. How do you think this will any different?

That's funny, I thought Rits and Sins fit into PvP almost seamlessly after Factions' release.

As far as Dervishes - I think they have decent damage potential, and there will definitely be ways to abuse Mysticism. They don't fill an obvious role like most professions and a lot of their skills are admittedly crap, but I think they'll find a few specific builds that allow them to fill a couple roles. As yet I just don't know what those are.

Zui · Sep 26, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

That's funny, I thought Rits and Sins fit into PvP almost seamlessly after Factions' release.

Really? Me too! Too bad I'm "no one."

Sinborn · Sep 26, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Dervishes are balance-builds. Since they have a health and energy mechanic built in, they can roam around where other classes usually can't. In fact, I think they're the only class that can effectively run vampiric spirit as a viable win condition.

Addressing OP - Forms are far from overpowered. They do not lead to instant success, ever. Play with the skill before deeming it stupid.

Greedy Gus · Sep 26, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Assassins & rits fit right in to PvP on release, people knew where to use them. I see the same with paragons. Dervishes are the one class I don't know how will affect PvP, but frankly I'm not too keen on caring. To me they seem rather useless in organized PvP with the current balance, not bringing enough to displace the current character archetypes. Sure they can output damage, but I agree with Jiggy that they don't seem to present a real 'threat'.

LoyalSoldier · Sep 26, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

There will always be builds for new classes. If you givbe people skills, they will find a way to use them.

dorn · Sep 26, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I'm going to have to add my name to the list of people who aren't really sure what to do with the Dervish. In the factions preview I could see the general idea of where Rits and Sins might be used. In this nighfall preview the paragon also seems pretty obvious to me.

Dervish just feels like a square peg in a round hole though. I couldn't say it sucked but I couldn't say how to make it even remotely work either though.

DieInBasra · Sep 26, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I think they have a few really great niche baseganking skills, alot of warrior supplementary skills(as in, works well with melee teams), an the ability to output tons of pressure. Wearing strike+Melandrue is pretty crazy.

Featherfoot grace is nice for ganking, as well as harriers grasp. If you're looking for an IAS, Whirling charge is great. Move and attack faster, at least for half of the time, which will easily get you more milage then frenzy.

Basicly, I think they'll be the best in condition pressure, and with two other melee guys, or on thier own as a Deep Wound machine in a spike or pressure build. And they'll rape PvE.

cookiemonkie · Sep 27, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Cookie, that is only if the enchantment is on the Dervish, not all. Besides, no profession can replace the monks healing, never.

Unless signet of piety, mysticism or the Dervish elite gets a nerf. Yep they will be monks. Being able to spam out prot spells non stop without losing energy unlike the monk primary has its place in any team build.

Signet of piety is 1 second cast, 100HP heal.. instant recharge while maintaining enchants (too easy to do since you gain energy from this and Dervish elite enchant)..

Imbue health heals others for roughly 275+ health...

And oh did I mention again you can spam out gaurdians, spirit bonds, rev fortunes pretty much non-stop? Yep you're going to see this build replace the monk backline and yes its going to get the nerf bat if not already.

Use the dervish elite and rev of fortune on yourself and spam out signet of piety, you gain more energy than expend while healing allies for 100health.

cookiemonkie · Sep 27, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Mysticism: 16
Earth: 10
Protection Prayers: 9

Skills:
- Signet of Piety
- Pious Renewal (Elite)
- Imbue Health
- Rev Fortune
- Guardian
- Spirit Bond
- Mend Ailment / Condition
- Some Hex Removal.....
... or put some attributes into healing spells and use gift of health... Anyways the build holds up well compared to monk primaries, built in energy management is more efficient than running e-drain, channeling etc.

Work out the numbers when you use Pious Renewal followed by Signet of Piety.... and this goes on and on and on since the cycle time of Pious renewal is 3 seconds and signet of piety instant recharge...

master_of_puppets · Sep 27, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

Featherfoot grace is nice for ganking, as well as harriers grasp. If you're looking for an IAS, Whirling charge is great. Move and attack faster, at least for half of the time, which will easily get you more milage then frenzy.

Uh... I looked through a few sites that had dervish skills and I didnt see neither featherfoot grace nor harriers grasp what do they do? And no, Whirling Charge is crap... it costs 15 energy which is more than half your max energy, only lasts 3-9 seconds with a cooldown of 15, and is in an attribute that most people probably wouldnt put a lot of points in (since I'm guessing most will put 16 in scythe mastery and then a lot in mysticism). Also you have to have enchantments on you to use it, which isn't a huge task but might screw you up occassionally.

DieInBasra · Sep 27, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Actually it only costs 10 energy, and on a character with double the energy regeneration of a warrior, I wouldn't say that's pushing it.It lasts 9 out of 20 seconds at 7 spec, in an attribute that has alot of nice ganking skills, as well as some great selfhealing skills. That's 9 seconds (with an very small investment, remember) of 33% faster attacking, and 33% faster movement, with no negitive point except you need to be under an enchantment. You can't tell me as a warrior you're under frenzy more then 3/4 of the time, and that's pushing it.

I think you need to look at your skills again.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Whirling_Charge

Featherfoot makes conditions expire 2x as fast, and you move 25% faster. Harriers Grasp cripples moving foes when you hit them.

Patrograd · Sep 28, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiemonkie

And oh did I mention again you can spam out gaurdians, spirit bonds, rev fortunes pretty much non-stop? Yep you're going to see this build replace the monk backline and yes its going to get the nerf bat if not already.

Hmm

I havent actually seen this used, so this is just a general comment. In the past there have been several different combinations tried to replace monk primaries, and people still keep returning to monks for the healing/prot needs. This is almost always due to divine favour.

IMHO a prot skill like ROF is pretty weak without that DF boost that only a monk primary can deliver. You would need to deliver two rofs to make up for that DF bonus in terms of HP returned, and three or four if you are looking to replace a boon's anti spike capability

As I say though, this is just theorising based upon long experience of trying to find a good character that can heal with something other than a monk primary

Yanman.be · Sep 28, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I think Dervishes will be only usefull in HA as gimmick builds.