Curse

Lews · Oct 22, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

They knew eventually because Khaos Sanctuary had 2 Pds and 3 Mesmers IIRC.

Greedy Gus · Oct 22, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Does anyone know how they did seeding for pairing teams on the different rounds? They certainly didn't go by ladder rank...

selber · Oct 22, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

It's explained in the first post.

romO · Oct 22, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

In the first round, it was standard tournament format (1v16, 2v15, 8v9, etc). In the later rounds it was random. It makes the seedings pretty meaningless, and the fact that the later round matches were going to be randomly selected was not disclosed to us. We had assumed standard swiss style where the top seed always plays the lowest available team with the same record. After the first round, we were expecting to play PnH, as they were the 15 seed, but instead they threw EW and then iQ at us. Even though we were the 1 seed, we had to play the hardest schedule. I don't really mind the system that much, I would have just liked to have fair warning about it.

As for the henchmen going around, FS only had 7 players on at the time that the tournament was supposed to start, and they had called their leader, the eighth, about 50 times. He never responded, and they were forced to play with henchies. As time went on, more of them thought it was meaningless and dropped out, but they had to complete all of the matches to get their prizes. As for Te, they played #15 PnH in the first match with 8 players and lost. They tried to shake it off and win the last three in hopes of qualifying for the finals. In the second match, they lost to #16 WoW. Several of their members ragequit at that point and the remaining members that wanted to keep trying were left to play with hench. Unfortunate in both situations. I'm not sure what other hench teams were going around, but it was most likely quitting after they lost their second game, as that would mean that they were eliminated from contention.

wassup1444465 · Oct 22, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Random pairings gave us a sort of harder schedule, too. We might have been forced to play PnH anyway due to their rank, but after losing to that we walked right into cow. Our last match against Chaos Sanctuary was also a result of the random pairings I think and it was such a joke. They were prepared for us to run SBRI and instead we ran some rit build that some guild earlier in the season rolled us with.

The fact that we didn't know it was random also meant that we only had five minutes to decide what to run against PnH. None of us were in the hall because we were practicing a degen build, and none of us checked our emails because we figured we would just play LOL. We didn't want to run our migrane build because then we figured NR/Tranq was on the way, and so the only thing we really had time to roll was the obs spike that most of us already had configured. You guys definately had the hardest draw though, which is definately unfair for the top seed.

My problems with the system are pretty basic. The guild that had a 3-1 record and didn't qualify couldn't control the fact that they didn't qualify. They had the same record as the other three teams, but the random system gave them a draw of teams that were deemed to be not as hard. There is no way to prove that they couldn't have beaten the teams that the other three 3-1 qualifying guilds beat, and so they got screwed out of this just by bad luck. I also don't think that things should be decided on the strength of schedule of a team. A team like PnH, which was top 5 until the end of the season, played WAY better than a rank 17 team. Similarly, Te didn't play their best for those first two matches, and so a win against them counted more than a win against a guild that was playing better than them. A first round win against FS would have been a freebie compared to some of the other guilds. Because of this, something needs to be revamped about the system, whether it be a tiebreaker fifth round or something completely different.

pigdestroyer · Oct 22, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

did Te rage quitted the tournament after the pnh rape?

edit: oh

anyway seems like QQ will have no problem at all...

Thom Bangalter · Oct 22, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

From the perspective of a mere observer, I kind of like the way the ladder plays out. Teams that seed in a certain position and therefore get an "easier" time are a thing of the past. It's fun to see "my teams" iQ and QQ go at it much earlier in the tournament and STILL have to go at it once again in the final rounds.

My issues with it however, are twofold:
1: because in the early rounds you only have one opportunity to play a team, it comes down, largely, to "Build Wars". Whomever has the build that best counters the other team is most likely going to win.

2. Because it comes down to build vs build, when determining who goes on to day 2, you can get ahead simply because you were able to out-build a higher seeded team, and therefore eliminate a team that had an "easier" schedule and suffered a loss to a team seeded lower than you.

I think there really should be a tie-breaker round for teams that go 3-1 instead of just arbitraily moving a team forward that had a "harder" schedule.

Anyway, I'm hoping for an iQ-QQ final, because that series is going to hopefully be either amazing, or a blowout. It's like the Yankees vs The Red Sox AL Pennant race two years ago.

pigdestroyer · Oct 22, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

well iQ took it with their VoD build, nice games

gg

Blame the Monks · Oct 22, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Wow. iQ makes it hard not to be an Idiot fanboy. You think after the first two times they eliminated the heavily favored #1 seed in tournament play we would all have learned not to underestimate them

Great job iQ. I officially dub thee the giant slayers.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Oct 22, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Overall I saw very little creativity in builds, nothing like the GWWC. The most creative build I saw today would have been the 3 Rit/mes build DeeR brought out.

I like the new tournament system with you facing different teams, but the pairings do need work.

Quote:

Wow. iQ makes it hard not to be an Idiot fanboy

iQ makes it hard to be a fanboy. Taking advantage of, closer to abusing imo, a flaw in the VoD mechanics to win is pretty dirty, if not dishonorable. Congrats to everyone in the GWWC, unless you ran henchway.

Thom · Oct 22, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Few points:
-It is tough to take the rankings incredibly seriously on a randomized ladder. The tournement format is all about know who you are going to play and preparing to beat a known opponent. Randomized matchups seem just fine as long as the schedule is set with fair warning.

-A 5th game or a tie-breaker/play-in round would make things a bit more clear ast to who the top 4 teams are.

-How much different is the current system from a double elimination tournement with randomized seatings?

-Everyone knows what iQ is doing when they have an elementalist casting fireball and rodgarts along with a trapper. If iQ can focus 2 characters around a fairly simple end game move, than whomever draws them should be able to come up with a few skills to help counter or attempt a tactic to negate the VoD advantage.

-WM successfully mirrored some of that iQ was trying and QQ attempted to use their split to reduce the VOD NPC advantage. QQ's split was questionable against a team as good as iQ, since it lacked flexiblity and couldn't survive iQ's adjustment. First match was won because iQ could dictate the match with their build. The second was won because iQ could adjust to QQ with the same build.

-All NPC manipulation is common knowledge and fair game. What iQ did was no different from catapulting the NPCs on a catapult map. In many ways it is the same as waiting to interrupt an Archers Troll Ungent after applying degen ... this tactic is proven and can work for anyone.

Patccmoi · Oct 22, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

The most creative build I saw today would have been the 3 Rit/mes build DeeR brought out.

That 3 Rt/Me build is something we rolled them with the night before lol. One of my guildie PMed one of DeeR and he told him they took it from us.

Gj though, i was really surprised to see a build i pretty much designed to take advantage of the fact everyone underestimates Rts out of spirit spammers in a tournament!

kitiara · Oct 23, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

iQ makes it hard to be a fanboy. Taking advantage of, closer to abusing imo, a flaw in the VoD mechanics to win is pretty dirty, if not dishonorable.

Dishonorable how? its part of the game and the best players will find the good things and abuse them Mercilessly. gg iQ

Blow Up Doll · Oct 23, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I can see SpNV upsetting some people.

They nicked our build lol... we owned them totally in about 5 mins with it and surprise surprise they run, apart from a few minor mods... almost exactly the same build... kinda didn't want them do to well for nicking our build but kinda did coz it was our build it would be nice so show how good it is... who wants QQway when you can have PUFFway lol.
I had thought QQ would win but all credit to iQ for playing well. QQ really did seem unstopable until they came to the finals.

tricolorsp · Oct 23, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

iQ makes it hard to be a fanboy. Taking advantage of, closer to abusing imo, a flaw in the VoD mechanics to win is pretty dirty, if not dishonorable.

So you saying that QQ or any other top guild never agroo'ed the NPCs in VOD and than kill with aoe?
It's not iQ fault that the npcs stays together after you agroo them in VOD.
This wasnt a new thing to QQ and they should already be prepared to that.

Lews · Oct 23, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Yeah we got rolled by some team, Illu or whatever and said 'wow that build raped, let's steal it for the tournie.'

Fun build, but IIRC you had 1 monk and an emo, but I might be wrong.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Oct 23, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitiara

Dishonorable how? its part of the game and the best players will find the good things and abuse them Mercilessly. gg iQ

I could bump the EW FoC thread but I won't. Everyone has opinions and that is mine, I just prefer teams to not use a broken mechanic to win a game. People quote that Sirlin article like it was the bible, and while his points are all valid and acceptable it is nice to see teams not use flawed game mechanics to pull out a win on a large stage.

Also you seem to be saying that we should have d/mo'd for 3 straight days or Signet of Might'ed or a few hours during the preview event, but that is only my interpretation.

tomcruisejr · Oct 23, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

iQ makes it hard to be a fanboy. Taking advantage of, closer to abusing imo, a flaw in the VoD mechanics to win is pretty dirty, if not dishonorable.

last time i checked the objective of GvG is to kill the guild lord. my team can run around for 20 minutes and kill the guild lord @ vod. or my team can ignore opponents, try to gank the guild lord and win.

iQ knows how to win. for that grats.

i can only see "honorable wins" in HA where you have to DP to death the opponents.

Oct 23, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wassup1444465

A team like PnH, which was top 5 until the end of the season, played WAY better than a rank 17 team.

Well yes, but this is simply because PnH isn't a rank 15 team just as iQ clearly wasn't the rank 11(or 10 or whatever) team(didn't anyone else notice that of the 3 serious competitors in the semis, two were on the bottom half of teh ladder? trust me, it was not a freak accident that they got there). The main idea behind the random pairing seemed an enlightened idea on Anet's part. I guess they realized that the ladder doesn't really reflect the quality of a guild very well, so this made great sense to me. The tie breaker was lame though for the reasons mentioned.

Another fun little observation: The guild that "debunked" the revered korean Mo/A uses a pair of them consistently through the tournament and in both final games, winning the tourney. Got to love the irony! Perhaps we can quit hating on them now that they've been imported to America successfully?

tomcruisejr · Oct 23, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCreaMPiMP

at sense to me. The tie breaker was lame though for the reasons mentioned.

Another fun little observation: The guild that "debunked" the revered korean Mo/A uses a pair of them consistently through the tournament and in both final games, winning the tourney. Got to love the irony! Perhaps we can quit hating on them now that they've been imported to America successfully?

koreans used /A basically to kite. maybe iQ used it coz they have NR/Tranq?