Curse

Divinus Stella · Oct 07, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Best holding build ive seen so far was 2 bonders,2 monks,1 smiter,1 warrior. Very high defence but how it gets to halls im a bit puzzled.

You timekill the zaishen just before the next halls match ends, theres a chance you can jump from zaishen to HoH without having to fight another map, then you rely on the other team in halls to kill the holding hero, thats how a lot of teams get those no dmg builds into halls, but as soon as you come up against 2 good teams its gg no matter what your running.

Fred Kiwi · Oct 07, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

i kind of agree with the change as a non ranked player i can find a group easier (quicker) and i dont ha much, but they really should have put it in a new arena in nf

Snirp · Oct 07, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Ok, after day 1 of the new 6v6 heroes ascent, and after playing, observing pug formation and observing games in observer mode i kind of make this opinion:

1 - Even though there are more people trying to play in pugs ( perhaps because they think its easier now ), the number of created pugs ( i mean the pugs that have someone that actually starts them insted of just trying to get into one ) is the same than before or just not enough for the amount of people trying to get in. Conclusion is simple, we have more people but the ones creating groups are the same and, with only 6 player groups i've seen even r6+ people asking for party in ID1 and 2 for like 1 hour if not more because, groups get full faster lol...
2 - Its amazing how anet can disapoint a player... i mean " exciting new maps "? Where are them? lol I just saw some tweaks and the removal of 1 map...
3 - The tweaks were, lets say, wheird? I mean, making altar maps 4 minutes is great, and convert altar maps into 3 teams is also cool ( i mean 2 teams was just a rush for the cap and just hold forever.. ), but the changes to scarred earth were just plain stupid. C'mon who the hell wants to be ganked... i understand that its cool for the ganking team but for the ones that are ganked it means "waste of time"...
4 - About creativity... well, i've seen like, touch rangers holding HoH a lot of time, i've seen more vim's holding than before and trust me, blood spike is not dead... lol. Anyway, i think the gimmicks are all over the place like, c'mon, touch rangers? U got to be joking... Looks like an improved version of alliance battles lol. Well about iway, i've seen ppl complaining about math owning with a new 6v6 variation of it, so i dont know we will get rid of it xD.

So the conclusion i take from the first day is... Thx anet for destroying Heroes ascent.

-ps- Hope it will somehow improve as the metagame gets defined...

As for my guild, gvg seems to be the only way out...

Cunning · Oct 07, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snirp

2 - Its amazing how anet can disapoint a player... i mean " exciting new maps "? Where are them? lol I just saw some tweaks and the removal of 1 map...

It's amazing how someone can fail to read and understand something correctly. Anet never said there would be new maps, ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snirp

4 - About creativity... well, i've seen like, touch rangers holding HoH a lot of time, i've seen more vim's holding than before and trust me, blood spike is not dead... lol. Anyway, i think the gimmicks are all over the place like, c'mon, touch rangers? U got to be joking... Looks like an improved version of alliance battles lol. Well about iway, i've seen ppl complaining about math owning with a new 6v6 variation of it, so i dont know we will get rid of it xD.

Yeah about creativity, it's seriously no different than before, if anything there's more variety at the moment, but that will settle down over time as people settle in.

Bloodspike will be dead when people realise they're not winning with it, sure you can get a successful spike but it's easier to shut down than a man hole. I imagine IWAY will be much easier to beat than before as well, but since I haven't versed a single IWAY team yet I can't really comment, nor can you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snirp

So the conclusion i take from the first day is... Thx anet for destroying Heroes ascent.

Tell me, have you been beaten by any of these so called "new gimmick" builds yet? Is HA too difficult, too easy, or too small? What exactly don't you like about it Snirp?

p.s. Learn how to write if you want to sound more credible.

phasola · Oct 07, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

i thought it was gonna be hard holding but i see some nubs getting 40 fame :>

Y O U Lo Se · Oct 07, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunning

Tell me, have you been beaten by any of these so called "new gimmick" builds yet? Is HA too difficult, too easy, or too small? What exactly don't you like about it Snirp?

p.s. Learn how to write if you want to sound more credible.

Didn't he point out his problems with the new HA?

p.s. Not everyone has english as his native language, it was understandable what he said and afterall, this is still the internet, why make everything you type perfect? He didn't type it like a 12 yr old 1337 speaker so...

Nurse With Wound · Oct 07, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunning

Tell me, have you been beaten by any of these so called "new gimmick" builds yet? Is HA too difficult, too easy, or too small? What exactly don't you like about it Snirp?

p.s. Learn how to write if you want to sound more credible.

Dont be silly. Dozens of us gave already tenths of reasons why we dont like the change. All you have to do it browse through the whole topic, theres no reason to write it all over again and again and again.

Also, pointing out mistakes in the online forums for an international game is extemely rude and immature. For your information english isnt the first language for all people posting here, including me. So chill a little, ok?

Snirp · Oct 07, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Well english is not my native language, but if that's what you want, i apologize for my bad english...

As for the game, you're right, they never said that there would be new maps, but still i think they will need a lot more to make them "exciting".

Anyway, the gimmicks are not the problem, they existed in 8v8, they exist in 6v6, so i just pointed that out because some people believe that 6v6 was going to put an end to them. I guess it didnt.

The real problems have already been pointed by a lot of people, i just wanted to add the fact that the tweak on scarred earth just made it 100% luck based. Now you just need to be lucky and beat the first team fast enough so you can go and gank the other 2...

subterra · Oct 07, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I was exadurating for the sake of making a point. Once again you miss my meaning entirely. READ! My guild is not full of people with lots of time on their hands. Unlike the vast majority of hardcore guilds out there which are on the whole populated by foul mouthed teenagers with too much time to spare. They have limited time to play and sometimes finding 8 people for HA is hard. Finding 6 is easier! Also I would love to know, how do you know I don't like 8v8. I never said anything of the sort. I am simply supporting 6v6 and looking at its positive attributes, which is doing a lot more then many people here seem to be capable of.

You know, there seems to me there are two classes of people here.

1. The supporters of 6v6 who's only valid argument is to be able to find / put together a group easier. This may be true in their case. The map changes are to weak to support an argument of positive effect.

And

2. The people who like to play the GAME. HA isnt about finding a group, it's about playing the game. The mechanics of 8v8 was much more fun and competitive than 6v6.

To the above, you insinuate all of us who don't support the change are "foul mouthed teens" with too much time on our hands. You have no clue what you are talking about. I'd be willing to bet that Im older than you with more responsibilities than you. This isnt a pissing match about who has more time to play GW, though. Better put, you do / did not have to devote tons of time to putting together a team in Heroes Ascent. I can barely log on without being PM'd to join a HA group (and I do not play 24/7 nor do I have the time to).

I've played enough 6v6 now to confirm that I am disappointed in this change and Anets decision to make it this way. For crying out loud, they could have just made TA 6v6...

tomcruisejr · Oct 07, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

If you used to run a "balanced" 8vs8 build and you think youre skilled at it, im wondering why now are you QQing. people QQing should only be the people who only rely on a single type of play. if you are good running balanced, you should still be able to survive in 6vs6 setting.

so its safe to categorize the "balanced" that you played is in the likes of IWAY, Blood spike, Ranger spike,vimway or w/e. or shall i say pseudo balanced fotmish build.

Quote:

p.s. Learn how to write if you want to sound more credible.

dumbest comment ever

Minus Sign · Oct 07, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

But on the other hand I really miss 8vs8, especially cause of gamestyle reasons. For now playing 6vs6 is OK for me, but on the long term I'd like to see 8vs8 coming back again for various reasons which have all been mentioned in this thread already.

Pitty though they removed Burial Mounds, it was a fun map to play IMO.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

If you used to run a "balanced" 8vs8 build and you think youre skilled at it, im wondering why now are you QQing. people QQing should only be the people who only rely on a single type of play. if you are good running balanced, you should still be able to survive in 6vs6 setting.

How many more times and in how many different ways do we need to answer this question before you understand why we're "QQ"ing over this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

so its safe to categorize the "balanced" that you played is in the likes of IWAY, Blood spike, Ranger spike,vimway or w/e. or shall i say pseudo balanced fotmish build.

I believe you give the best possible response to this statement, so I'll just quote you one more time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

dumbest comment ever

@Ado: while you may not believe we need to "wait on Nightfall" to see a change, all too many players responding to this thread are. You were merely the last to state it, so I quoted you to make my point.

tomcruisejr · Oct 07, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

QFTHow many more times and in how many different ways do we need to answer this question before you understand why we're "QQ"ing over this?

coz the reason that you provide doesnt sink in and isnt convincing. the only valid reason why should you QQ to this change if you used to win with a single gameplay, be it balanced or whatever.

Minus Sign · Oct 07, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

coz the reason that you provide doesnt sink in and isnt convincing. the only valid reason why should you QQ to this change if you used to win with a single gameplay, be it balanced or whatever.

Your very statement is self defeating when taken with your above comments. Were we to take the reverse of your ts safe to categorize the "balanced" that you played is in the likes of IWAY, Blood spike, Ranger spike,vimway or w/e" statement, then IWAY is just a pressure build. Bspike is just a build with a spike in it, ViM is heavy degen.

None of them are gimmicks; they're just extremes of the three core choices...which, they are in a way. And if they weren't unbalanced then there was never a reason to change 8v8 HA.

Off-Topic:What makes them gimmicks as opposed to balanced builds is their inability to adapt to each other. Its rock paper scissors; whichever of the three you brought will beat the antithisis your opponent plays. They are also mind-numbingly repetitive in their play style: be it 321 spike or bow pet, click IAS and 123 adrenal skills (and IWAY when enough wolves die). And because they can't adapt, a build that doesn't follow these extremes can and does adapt to fight against them. That is balanced tomcruisejr.

I've always tried to be up-font in this forum. I've IWAYed. I've run Bspike and ViM before. I'm not ashamed of that. They're easier to get into when you PuG (which is why gimmicks aren't going anywhere) and can be fun to play...every now and again. But they don't teach me anything beyond the first few matches; once I've learned how to run the build once, there's not much left to learn.

On-Topic: what 6v6 creates in the competitive environment of HA is more rock paper scissors. Fewer characters on your team means less ability to adapt your build to different strategies, less flexibility in the balanced structure. This is the "feel" that people are talking about in thread. Less flexibility--less players--makes the structure of any build more rigid in what it can do and what it can counter.

Can expierienced players win through. Often, yes. But once 6v6 calms down and solid gimmicks break the surface it will fall down to bringing coutners to them again or losing in lot sums.

And while other players here may not want to admit it: yes. I've lost to a few Rspikes because we couldn't bring proper counters. Yes: my guild team lost to a very good dual smite team last night as well...when they killed our monks leaving us only an infuse ele.

Feels like TA. Tastes like Brocolli. I don't like it.

tomcruisejr · Oct 07, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Your very statement is self defeating when taken with your above comments. Were we to take the reverse of your ts safe to categorize the "balanced" that you played is in the likes of IWAY, Blood spike, Ranger spike,vimway or w/e" statement, then IWAY is just a pressure build. Bspike is just a build with a spike in it, ViM is heavy degen.

that's how i see it.

anyway, i just find it ridiculously funny that certain balanced players are quitting the game/hearing their friends cry because of that/selling their accounts because ha is now 6vs6. it's not like your 6 man balanced team vs 8 iway team or 8 bloodspike team or 8 vimway team. if you really know how to play balanced, you can scale your 8 man team to 6 team to deal with different teams with 6 players.

as you said, one qualification of being balanced is be able to adapt. so if you're leetzors rank 11 that never iwayed or vimwayed, you should be able to adapt and play balanced in the new HA coz you're the leetest balanced HAer ever.

Mental Leteci · Oct 07, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

It's not about can we win in 6v6 or not (of course we can),it's about do we like it or not. You can win in TA,but you still won't play it cause it's boring (this was an example).

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 08, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

It's not about can we win in 6v6 or not (of course we can),it's about do we like it or not. You can win in TA,but you still won't play it cause it's boring (this was an example).

If you could gain glad points per single win you would ;p

Boofhead · Oct 08, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Why haven't you guys quit already -_-

Thanas · Oct 08, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Also, pointing out mistakes in the online forums for an international game is extemely rude and immature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Wow you deleted two previous threads. Censorship ftw I see. You can agree with mighty anet and their asslickers. The other choice you have is STFU. Nice forums. Nice team. Great community

Rude and immature. Lol the Irony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

On-Topic: what 6v6 creates in the competitive environment of HA is more rock paper scissors. Fewer characters on your team means less ability to adapt your build to different strategies, less flexibility in the balanced structure. This is the "feel" that people are talking about in thread. Less flexibility--less players--makes the structure of any build more rigid in what it can do and what it can counter.

I can see where you are coming from minus. However I believe that with 6 players you still have room for flexibility. Builds will just have to be more closely scrutinised for efficiency. If this means losing an overly defensive 3 monk back line, which in my experience leads to drawn out stalemates, then so be it.

I also believe that spike builds will become more difficult to utilise effectively as will most of the cookie cutter builds, since they tend to rely on numbers.

...And you must always remember that there was never meant to be one perfect build to beat all others. Every build will always have its weakness and its strengths.

Thanas · Oct 08, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

It's not about can we win in 6v6 or not (of course we can),it's about do we like it or not. You can win in TA,but you still won't play it cause it's boring (this was an example).

Its not TA though, you keep on comparing 6v6 to TA, but it isnt. There is room for creativity in 6v6 and its not all rock, paper, scissor like you say. I saw a large variety of builds during the 6v6 event and most were balanced. When my guild/alliance did have to fight Vimway, Iway and spike, they were easy to take down because they relied too heavily on one tactic. The fun lay in fighting balanced teams, where tactics could be employed and matches swung back and forth. This comparison of TA to 6v6 doesnt stick for me. Fact of the matter is everyone has gotten used to 8v8 and they simply do not like the change and now they are trying to rationalise this unease. Changes to GW have happened before and everyone said oooh they're bad, then what do you know, a few months later they are the norm and everyones happy with them. For those who aren't happy with it, come back in a month or two, then give it another try, but give it time.

Cunning · Oct 08, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Off topic

Quote:

Well english is not my native language, but if that's what you want, i apologize for my bad english.

Considering your english appears fine, I wouldn't have guessed you spoke any other language. My issue is when people write their post as if they have no regard for the people trying to read it. I can happily tolerate imperfect english by non-english speakers, but then there's those who just write sloppily for no apparent reason. I apologise for being snide before, it was uncalled for.

Back on topic

Many complaints seem to be about the changes that were made or what people are witnessing in HA, there seems to be very few people commenting about their experience in the new HA and the reason they're not enjoying it.

I've been having about as much fun in 6v6 as I did in 8v8, my only problems are that some of our regular HAers are forced to either not play at a particular time, or try to form another group, however getting 12 guildies on at the same time is more difficult than getting 8.

I've also noticed a lack of intensity and excitement previously found in 8v8 HA, however I can't help but feel the maps are better suited for 6v6. I always found 8v8 over cramped.