Curse

Van Goghs Ear · Oct 06, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Sorry friend, but shortening match to 20 minutes, and taking one brainless boduguard cant be compared to ripping two players from the team, and COMPLEATLY changing the game mode we're discussing.

lol...are you serious? It has changed the game style extensively, and not knowing that is a sign of complete ignorance. I tombs a fair amount, I have a good friends list, and when my guild doesn't have enough for GvG, I often HA now adays, and do quite well there. What I find to be the most amusing argument for those opposed to the change is the fact that they fear build diversity and play style, yet all boast to be avid supporters of balanced/non gimmicky builds. Yet the fact remains that that is all you see during prime time ha. I held the other day for about an hour, and in that time we encountered 2 vimways, 2 iways, and about 4 bloodspikes with maybe 1 or 2 balanced builds. Yesterday on scarred earth we fought 2 spikes in a row, 1 ele, and 1 bspike. The rest of what I faced were either spikes, iway or vimway.

I just don`t understand the argument...6v6 weekend lasted...1 weekend, how is that enough to tell if you like or hate the style of play and furthermore it proved to irradicate most gimmick builds aside from vimway which you only saw in UW or burrial and if you did encounter a spike during 6v6, you know how much of a joke it was. I just find it amusing that all these HA diehards who are supposed supporters of the balanced way of play are so incredibly opposed to 6 man play which will essentially restore balanced play to HA which is easily the one pvp area where you are least likely to run into a balanced build...hell you have more of a chance of running into a balanced team in random arenas...that pretty much says it all.

So stop lying to yourselves and the people in this thread. The only reasons you could possibly be upset enough to quit over this is if A. you frequently run a gimmick build, or B. you just haven't given 6 man enough of a try.

subterra · Oct 06, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

If the HA community were vital and growing, these changes wouldn't be necessary. The HA community has been neither vital nor growing. "Revitalize" means to bring new life to something; clearly theses changes were designed to bring new blood. You may call them "I can't get a group" whiners and noobs, but they are the people who will make up the next generation of hardcore HA players. You can also include in this group GvG players and glad point farmers, who largely avoid HA.

All that was truly needed to revitalize HA is map changes / updates. Alot of people have been asking this for quite a while. This is a risky and drastic change to try and revamp HoH gameplay IMHO.

Quote:

The experience for most new people in HA is the inability to group up. If they do manage to find a group, they will likely get smoked in there first match or end up in a 20 minute stalemate with a holding team, since good PuG rarely take a total newbie.

While I understand HA is supposed to be "casual", the truth is it's not and probably won't become that casual after the update. Pugging by most part is an absolute waste of time and most people that play HA daily are playing with guildies or friends. Most people that remain unranked and unable to find a group are ones that refuse to adapt to simple "requests" like having vent/ts or a working mic. The number one reason people can't get into groups is their refusal to be "social".

Midnight De Blood · Oct 06, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I am an adament pvp player and i like this change looking into the future a month this will end up being really fun and figuring i hate all forms of iway (vim too). As for the gimmick builds they will always be here but with the 6v6 people have to think out of the box, for the first month I know we will see the gimmicks but those go out on NFs release vims and iway for example. and second the elitism so what the r9+ they will be just a noob with the new maps and the new builds so thats fine too i dont mind if my r5 almost 6 was a kind of waste this will prove more of a challenge which i really have been waiting for. As far as the people that hate this, why? cant you adjust or are you upset at being a noob again, or is it the fact that you think that HA should only be for the elitist. Plus most of the spike (gimmick) builds listed, so far, all are going to be weaker with 6v6 even a 6 monk stall can easily be dealt with and with NF easier plus those that want a 8v8 pvp field NF has 2 more pvp one of which is for heros the other is not listed so there may be a new 8v8 and HA needed to be modded (helping the nerf of some of the 8v8 builds) it is dull and boring with the same old builds used over and over and with the gimmick builds with 6v6 they will have multiple weaknesses so still no problem

gimpy wimmer · Oct 06, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

ive noticed alot of people complaining about holding but what if theres a new type of holding instead of the king of the hill style they have right now i mean they did say maps would be changed up

Rathcail · Oct 06, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

I'm not a GvG player on an ego trip, and I'm not an envious RA/PvE noob.

I support the change.

Going offtopic, but I have to say I like your guild's name and tag combination. I laughed the first time I saw you folks win the halls.

Nurse With Wound · Oct 06, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

Yet the fact remains that that is all you see during prime time ha. I held the other day for about an hour, and in that time we encountered 2 vimways, 2 iways, and about 4 bloodspikes with maybe 1 or 2 balanced builds. Yesterday on scarred earth we fought 2 spikes in a row, 1 ele, and 1 bspike. The rest of what I faced were either spikes, iway or vimway.

Maybe you are playing during the happy hours, because certainly we're meeting much more balanced teams than you encountered. During euro prime-time viway is never seen in HOH.Of course gimmicks are still there, but certainly not at those proportions. You are exaggerating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

I just find it amusing that all these HA diehards who are supposed supporters of the balanced way of play are so incredibly opposed to 6 man play which will essentially restore balanced play to HA which is easily the one pvp area where you are least likely to run into a balanced build...

You are just being naive. Old gimmicks will die, thats true. New will arise in the first two weeks. Believe me, I know what I'm saying.... The only change that will remain is less opportunities to experiment. 10 classes ( after nightfall ) 6 character slots only < 10 classes 8 character slots. Simple math. Another one is that I wont be playing with all of my usual friends ( yes I have no problem finding a group, in fact my guild was made around the 8 man team), some will have to find other groups, and we like playing together which will be impossible now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

hell you have more of a chance of running into a balanced team in random arenas...that pretty much says it all.

I dont know, I dont play random arenas, but the word "random" indicates that you hardly can talk about any balance at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

So stop lying to yourselves and the people in this thread. The only reasons you could possibly be upset enough to quit over this is if A. you frequently run a gimmick build, or B. you just haven't given 6 man enough of a try.

I appreciate discussion with people who dont tell me what I'm thinking. Also, stop suggesting that I'm playing iway or other gimmicks. This is getting old, and is insulting me and my friends. MY GUILD IS PLAYING BALANCED HA. EOT. Try to think about some serious arguments, not the old "zomg u dont like 6vs6 u must be iway playa!"

After all those posts its obvious we wont reach consensus. You like the new format, I like the old one. Peace.

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 06, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

lol...are you serious? It has changed the game style extensively, and not knowing that is a sign of complete ignorance. I tombs a fair amount, I have a good friends list, and when my guild doesn't have enough for GvG, I often HA now adays, and do quite well there. What I find to be the most amusing argument for those opposed to the change is the fact that they fear build diversity and play style, yet all boast to be avid supporters of balanced/non gimmicky builds. Yet the fact remains that that is all you see during prime time ha. I held the other day for about an hour, and in that time we encountered 2 vimways, 2 iways, and about 4 bloodspikes with maybe 1 or 2 balanced builds. Yesterday on scarred earth we fought 2 spikes in a row, 1 ele, and 1 bspike. The rest of what I faced were either spikes, iway or vimway.

I just don`t understand the argument...6v6 weekend lasted...1 weekend, how is that enough to tell if you like or hate the style of play and furthermore it proved to irradicate most gimmick builds aside from vimway which you only saw in UW or burrial and if you did encounter a spike during 6v6, you know how much of a joke it was. I just find it amusing that all these HA diehards who are supposed supporters of the balanced way of play are so incredibly opposed to 6 man play which will essentially restore balanced play to HA which is easily the one pvp area where you are least likely to run into a balanced build...hell you have more of a chance of running into a balanced team in random arenas...that pretty much says it all.

So stop lying to yourselves and the people in this thread. The only reasons you could possibly be upset enough to quit over this is if A. you frequently run a gimmick build, or B. you just haven't given 6 man enough of a try.

QFT

Quote:

While I understand HA is supposed to be "casual"

Hm, I wouldn't say that HA is supposed to be casual, but I think that it just isn't quite as serious as GvG.

Minus Sign · Oct 06, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

I just don`t understand the argument...6v6 weekend lasted...1 weekend, how is that enough to tell if you like or hate the style of play...

Do you like broccoli? I hate it. And it didn’t take me a months worth of meals to figure that out.

I didn’t have to eat it raw, steamed, stewed, with cheese, without, ranch dressing, etc etc etc to figure it out. I tried it once. I tried it again later. And you know what? I can honestly say, I still don’t like broccoli and probably never will.

I played the double fame weekend with 6v6. Friday was “okay”—in the sense that everyone was so joyous over it that I didn’t dare bash it…much. By the end of Saturday I was fame farming. I ran many different builds. Didn’t like it; felt constrained, smaller.

6v6 felt like TA and I only go in there to practice gank separation with my guild.

And because I didn’t like it 6v6 was a grind for me to play through. I was happy to see it come and very happy to see it go.

So stop kidding yourself and attempting to degrade the skill of those arguing against you. Some people don't have to try something again and again and again week in week out ad infinitum to know they don't like it. They try it a little, and they make up their mind.

And lets not forget my primary argument about this issue: many of the people who want this don't HA regularly. Your side keeps saying "this will bring more people into HA". I have to remind you how HA works. HA isn't GvG. rank 0 groups do and will be facing r9+teams regularly.

Guilds full of people are in there on a regular basis nub-stomping new players for free fame on their way to HoH to hold and farm sigils.

Many of those guilds will adapt to this--because its being shoved down their throats like so much broccoli--and continue stomping newbies on their way to HoH...to farm sigils and golds as usual.

A few times of that, the newbies will do what newbies do in HA: grind through with bad groups to learn and farm their emotes or leave en masse.

And now the HA regulars opposed to this are suddenly stuck with a 6v6 we don't like and no new people...

I hope that helps explain the argument. next time you're confused about something, ask first instead of jumping to conclusions.

gladiator888 · Oct 06, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

i think those that hate this change are the vocal minority

-Loki- · Oct 06, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Actually, they are the minority of the vocal minority. The majority of the vocal minority seem pretty pleased.

Zui · Oct 06, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Do you like broccoli? I hate it. And it didn’t take me a months worth of meals to figure that out.

I didn’t have to eat it raw, steamed, stewed, with cheese, without, ranch dressing, etc etc etc to figure it out. I tried it once. I tried it again later. And you know what? I can honestly say, I still don’t like broccoli and probably never will.

I played the double fame weekend with 6v6. Friday was “okay”—in the sense that everyone was so joyous over it that I didn’t dare bash it…much. By the end of Saturday I was fame farming. I ran many different builds. Didn’t like it; felt constrained, smaller.

6v6 felt like TA and I only go in there to practice gank separation with my guild.

And because I didn’t like it 6v6 was a grind for me to play through. I was happy to see it come and very happy to see it go.

So stop kidding yourself and attempting to degrade the skill of those arguing against you. Some people don't have to try something again and again and again week in week out ad infinitum to know they don't like it. They try it a little, and they make up their mind.

I hope that helps explain the argument. next time you're confused about something, ask first instead of jumping to conclusions.

Your comparison about broccoli doesn't really apply, at all. Sorry. The entire mode of Hereos' Ascent play is going to be changed. We know the maps are going to be changed, and I'd expect we're getting new victory conditions on those maps. In addition, they're changing it to 6 vs 6.

Considering the fact maps and victory conditions really dictate playstyle, you have no clue if you'll like it or not. You do not know how it will feel. The only thing you know is you did not like 6 vs 6 with the original maps and victory conditions of Heroes' Ascent. We could use the 8 vs 8 of GvG and that of HA as an example. Different builds are run for the most part, and different strategy is employed. Why? The maps, game mechanics, and victory conditions are very different in each type. Some people love GvG and hate HA, for others it may even be the reverse. Until you play it at length, you have no room to say you're going to hate it. Since you have absolutly no idea in the least what it will really be like, unless maybe you're a developer/alpha tester and designed or tested the new maps? Didn't think so.

Minus Sign · Oct 06, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Your comparison about broccoli doesn't really apply, at all. Sorry. The entire mode of Hereos' Ascent play is going to be changed. We know the maps are going to be changed, and I'd expect we're getting new victory conditions on those maps. In addition, they're changing it to 6 vs 6.

Considering the fact maps and victory conditions really dictate playstyle, you have no clue if you'll like it or not. You do not know how it will feel. The only thing you know is you did not like 6 vs 6 with the original maps and victory conditions of Heroes' Ascent. We could use the 8 vs 8 of GvG and that of HA as an example. Different builds are run for the most part, and different strategy is employed. Why? The maps, game mechanics, and victory conditions are very different in each type. Some people love GvG and hate HA, for others it may even be the reverse. Until you play it at length, you have no room to say you're going to hate it. Since you have absolutly no idea in the least what it will really be like, unless maybe you're a developer/alpha tester and designed or tested the new maps? Didn't think so.

You mean I get that brocolli with bacon bits instead of the cheese I tried and disliked?

LightningHell · Oct 06, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

^ lol your a dumbass

QF un-T

Well, I think many of us are saying, we don't know what it's going to be like yet, why can't we try a bit before complaining? 2 days at least?

Zui · Oct 06, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

You mean I get that brocolli with bacon bits instead of the cheese I tried and disliked?

Considering all the descent Heroes' Ascent builds ever created revolve around exploiting the maps and map mechanics... It's more like getting a food that you've never had instead of Brocolli.

But, if you want to illogicaly cry about how it will be horrible, even though you haven't even played it once and have no basis to judge it at all, you do that. I'll be playing 6 vs 6, bye bye.

Van Goghs Ear · Oct 06, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

Maybe you are playing during the happy hours, because certainly we're meeting much more balanced teams than you encountered. During euro prime-time viway is never seen in HOH.Of course gimmicks are still there, but certainly not at those proportions. You are exaggerating.

I'm playing during prime time american server hours.

Quote:

You are just being naive. Old gimmicks will die, thats true. New will arise in the first two weeks. Believe me, I know what I'm saying.... The only change that will remain is less opportunities to experiment. 10 classes ( after nightfall ) 6 character slots only < 10 classes 8 character slots. Simple math. Another one is that I wont be playing with all of my usual friends ( yes I have no problem finding a group, in fact my guild was made around the 8 man team), some will have to find other groups, and we like playing together which will be impossible now.

gimmick builds will always be in this game. They exist in all forms of pvp. Wherever a metagame exists, there will always be a build to take advantage of the meta. However, I think it's fairly safe to say that it will eliminate rather lame builds like bloodspike. With only 6 slots open, it makes skill bars tighter, hence I believe builds won't be able to stack on defensive holding skills that can tend to make games in HA boring at times. Even with GvG you are essentially only 7 at the stand which puts a strain on the team build. In HA you don't have that buffer as all 8 are playing one another 8v8 (aside from the occasional relic run).

Quote:

I dont know, I dont play random arenas, but the word "random" indicates that you hardly can talk about any balance at all.

the point I was making which seems to have eluded you is that when a random arena provides a more balanced game experience (simply from random people joining a game with no build preperation) than an arena that involves organization, it speaks volumes.

anyways, there's no point in providing any opposition to your opinions, the vocal few have already made it clear how they feel and they will either refuse to adapt and quit, or adapt. Either way, I don't see it as a loss or a gain to the guild wars community.

Evil dropping from GvG because the core was being shipped off to the army = loss to the guild wars community.

HAers rage quitting Guild wars = tumbleweed...

and for the record, I enjoy the taste of broccoli, while it took a while to adapt my palette to the flavour much like it took me awhile to appreciate the flavour of onions, I now couldn't imagine certain culinary dishes without them, and I am glad that I have overcome my closemindedness towards certain things to allow me the opportunity to appreciate a wider variety of options and enjoyment.

GG, and no, I'm not a dumbass, I just don't cry about videogames.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 06, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Okay, it's out.

Not impressed with the map changes. Nothing new in HoH, and if anything there's more focus on 3-way dias and ganks than there was before. Arenanet really seems to love the gametype, and they don't seem to realize how much politics and luck dominates Courtyard instead of player skill.

-Loki- · Oct 06, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

That same politics and luck now dominates Borken Tower as well. The map changes dissapointed me, but I still love the 6 man teams.

Zui · Oct 06, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Not impressed with the map changes. Nothing new in HoH, and if anything there's more focus on 3-way dias and ganks than there was before. Arenanet really seems to love the gametype, and they don't seem to realize how much politics and luck dominates Courtyard instead of player skill.

I'm not impressed with the map changes, either. Much for the same reasons.

I still think I enjoy the 6 vs 6 enviroment more than the 8 vs 8 one. Less gimmicks FTW.

yesitsrob · Oct 06, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Broken Tower was no better before in fairness... If you weren't completely horrible in 1v1 Broken Tower, if you cap, then you win.... Even if it took you the full timer... fact is.. 1 team that can afford to play extremely defensive and has morale boosts every 2 minutes will not die.

And now it's just a complete clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO instead. The timers on Courtyard and Broken Tower are however a good thing.

I've not played scarred earth with levers yet so I really don't know how that will work out

-Loki- · Oct 06, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Scarred Earth levers basically just let the team that wins the first fight, if they win quickly enough, get to the other fight midway and get in - fully regen'd - and pretty much wipe both teams. It hardly opens the middle of the map as a fighting area.