Curse

TheOneMephisto · Oct 30, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I disagree. There are characters that superior runes are still completely viable on.

Exactly. I still wouldn't even flinch (okay, maybe a little bit more now) at running a superior on something like a cripshot with a decently specced distortion or something.

Tainek · Oct 31, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Exactly. I still wouldn't even flinch (okay, maybe a little bit more now) at running a superior on something like a cripshot with a decently specced distortion or something.

and of course on Adrenal Spike warriors

RandomEngy · Oct 31, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Armor swapping was never meant to be part of PvP. This is why PvP characters have had one set of armor from the beginning of the game until recently.

And no, PvE characters are not meant to have an advantage over PvP characters. The entire point of a PvP character is that you can be just as good as someone who has killed a million trolls.

Also, armor swapping is not the same as weapon swapping. You hit one button to swap out your weapons, and it's part of the combat interface. It's patently obvious that you're meant to switch weapons in PvP, since it's built into even the earliest PvP character creation screens and you can do it easily in combat.

And it's not easy or fun to do. In the middle of a match, open up my inventory that's overcrowded with different sets of armor, then click and drag 5 times to get my new set? It really doesn't fit into combat at all. It's definitely in the realm of pre-match setup, where you have a lot of time to get everything the way you want it, in the same vein as picking your skills and attributes.

Oh yes, and of course there's this: "ANet let you switch armor in PvP for a long time, so they should keep it that way." Let's get this straight. ANet doesn't care how it was. They're only interested in making the game as is fun to play. They thought requiring you to bring 4 sets of armor to be competitive was not an accessible or fun environment, so they fixed it. The fact that they had not gotten around to fixing it until now doesn't somehow mean they were endorsing the way it was before. It only means they had a huge list of things to do.

Patrograd · Oct 31, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

and of course on Adrenal Spike warriors

Very debateable imo, especially on hammer warriors, but even on axes and swords

I wouldnt run a superior on a build that didnt really, really need one, and the only build that comes to mind immediately is the cripshot as said before

pah01 · Oct 31, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

You cant run sups on anyone.

Edit found quote :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

On the other hand a Warrior with DP is useless because his power comes from his ability to get up in your face in relative safety. A Warrior with lots of DP cannot play aggressively and can't be effective if he can't ge aggressive. If you can put DP on anyone, it should be the Warriors.

A warrior on DP and a sup rune that cant swap is not a threat(in comparison with a guy that can switch). I remember thinking that warriors should always pump weapon mastery to 16 no buts.

Then I got told by a member of IB that that was not true. This member said that even a warrior can get spiked out. If you want him to overextend you cant have him running sups thats it. This guy told me they wouldnt run sups on PVE warriors.

I guess the next point is war machine. They never run sups because they cant switch as they use pvp characters.

The next point is VOD. You cant unequip your sup in VOD so - 25% health plus -75 and you can be killed easily. My guild leader makes a point that 20 minute VOD kills sup runes because even matched encounters are going there and sup runed characters even warriors are a liability.

In an even match you cant count on 10% morale boost to make you more survivable - you are just as likely to be on 15% dp.

My opinion is you would have to take something like endure pain to survive spikes if you want to run a sup because one death plus sup plus VOD = less threatening warrior.

Then versus pure spike teams - your warriors cant survive spikes reliably with sup runes. GG to your main threat.

I dont think you can run a cripshot viably anymore - sup rune issues and distortion are ghey

at least the character build is seriously gimped but I will have to look at this in more depth.

Goodbye sups.

Sam

Edit: Some clarification

A warrior at 14 weapon mastery is still a significant threat and still requires the same shutdown as a warrior with a superior rune and 16 mastery.

However if you do manage to catch him under frenzy and now he cant swap the sup rune running warrior is now less of a threat than the one running a minor since he cant just play as aggreesivly as the one with more health.

So you are sacrificing some damage on spikes and some DPS at the start but even so you arent because you are easier to kill. This means you cant play as aggresivly therby losing some DPS.

Of course this only will matter in evenly matched encounters but this is the only case where you should be planning for. If you outclass a team you are going to destroy them and vice versa.

Divineshadows · Oct 31, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Very debateable imo, especially on hammer warriors, but even on axes and swords

I wouldnt run a superior on a build that didnt really, really need one, and the only build that comes to mind immediately is the cripshot as said before

In 4v4, I think that a superior attribute rune will still be the de-facto standard for all characters. In 8v8, all minors will be the standard. It is tough to say for 6v6 but minors are likely the best route.

Araman123 · Oct 31, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

and of course on Adrenal Spike warriors

warriors NEVER need sup runes, the extra 2 attribs on the weapon attrib makes no difference in gvg, even when adren spiking.

pah01 · Nov 02, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araman123

warriors NEVER need sup runes, the extra 2 attribs on the weapon attrib makes no difference in gvg, even when adren spiking.

If you need a sup rune for your character then he is unrunnable :P

And araman in correct about warriors.

Sam

sir lockt · Nov 02, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araman123

warriors NEVER need sup runes, the extra 2 attribs on the weapon attrib makes no difference in gvg, even when adren spiking.

No difference is quite a statement

but I agree with you it has limited use...

We had a nasty experience with it, since we run a balanced/adren spike build. on all chars spikes where stopped, but our hammer decided to run under Frenzy and got caught by a fire ele... when he died trouble began since he also had a sup rune... no way to swap it out... so he kept dying... if you hammer is out...its gg...

bottomline is... normally warriors arent spiked, but if they overextend (which need to be done sometimes) and no other kills can be forced, the enemy might try to rip out your teeth...if they succeed its over...

So for me its clear... I would not favor sup runes on a warrior...

Tark Alkerk · Nov 02, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

i can't see why they did this, i don't think its immbaleneced, because how can it be if everyone can do it.
its not a big problem just a minor annoyence.

Zui · Nov 02, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tark Alkerk

i can't see why they did this, i don't think its immbaleneced, because how can it be if everyone can do it.
its not a big problem just a minor annoyence.

... Read the thread... This may be too much to ask...

So I give you...

Highlights:

1) Let you use superiors with no *real* penalty.

2) Was never intended, and thus never factored into game balance.

Program Ftw · Nov 02, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Exactly. I still wouldn't even flinch (okay, maybe a little bit more now) at running a superior on something like a cripshot with a decently specced distortion or something.

You can run a Crip on 14 Expertise fine, and Distortion got owned, like a 2 sec duration and also now only ranger stances apply to expertise, it's gg for Distortion.

Runner a Axe Warrior on 14 Axe (Minor) also means that it can't trigger Spirit Bond, which is nice

pah01 · Nov 02, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

It doesnt matter that critical hits at 14 axe dont trigger spirit bond because no monk should be using it outside of spikes. Use gaurdian or reversal to prevent auto attacking warrior damage.

10 energy is expensive to use like that. Especially given that booners energy management is now nerfed and shot to hell.

Blessed lighters dont have the energy to use bond or prot spirit when someones getting whacked by a warrior outside of a spike all the time.

I can see cripshots run with dark escape or similar. Distortion is now no use for them.

Sam

TheOneMephisto · Nov 02, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

You can run a Crip on 14 Expertise fine, and Distortion got owned, like a 2 sec duration and also now only ranger stances apply to expertise, it's gg for Distortion.

Runner a Axe Warrior on 14 Axe (Minor) also means that it can't trigger Spirit Bond, which is nice

IMO you can still run distortion on a crip, you just need to run it on a higher spec. All you need is ~3 sec to cover troll unguent. The thing is that if you don't have distortion and you end up dueling another cripshot, it's too easy to interrupt troll or even like shadow refuge if you're using that. Maybe feigned neutrality? I don't really know what people are running on cripshots nowadays.

Ronin Rangerin · Nov 07, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

mantra of resolve, troll unguent ftw bisnatches!!!

Eonwe · Nov 07, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

It was a needed fix.

Mystic- · Nov 07, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

<3 3,2,1!!!

CAT · Nov 09, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Another point I think worth mentioning is the addition of the wurm isle. You think +120 health is ok in some situations, but not all. Imagine using armor swaps with that, running an extra sup and a major and still having a slight bonus. I think having +3 in attributes from a shrine can be a little imba'd against teams that arnt ready to armor swap for that map.

shardfenix · Nov 09, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

There is absolutely no reason to make a pve now, unless you want a money sink.

Riotgear · Nov 09, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

There is absolutely no reason to make a pve now, unless you want a money sink.

All the reason you need is contained in the above picture. And that's a lot of reason.