Curse

Messner · Oct 27, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Armor swapping increases offensive strength because it allows you to bring that superior rune in the first place. Your argument assumes that everyone brought superior runes as the default option, and were switching them down in response to circumstances like DP, VoD, spike, etc. I believe this assumption is incorrect. The minor rune is actually the default option, and the superior rune is swapped up when DP, Vod, and spike conditions do not exist. I would never bring a superior rune if I didn't know it could be swapped out.

That is my assumption. Thanks for clarifying?

I suppose 0 morale no sup -> 10 morale with sup can happen and negate much of the boost. The tradeoffs still exist, it's a morale boost, a tide turner, more HP and energy don't add much but they allow you to add more with a hat swap. The disincentive is the inherent property of the rune, for the boost in attributes, you sacrifice xx health. It's just annoying that they're eliminating the dynamic of the rune.

pah01 · Oct 27, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

I talked to Izzy last night and he said that he fully supports weapon swapping, as it doesn't have the same power that armor swapping does. The main problem with armor swapping, at least in Izzy's eyes, was swapping superior runes on and off, not necessarily the armor mods. Superior runes were supposed to mean that you were taking a sufficient risk to gain an offensive advantage, not something that you were able to get an advantage from with no drawbacks.

Izzy plays with TE and a bunch of high level players often eneogh to understand the high level metagame.

Surely he would know that now nobody is going to run superior runes. Except maybe Kriegar since even distortion was for pansys.

Weapon of choice rules :P

Way to make superior runes absolutely useless.

Lots of games go to VOD and people do die so who is actually going to run em. Ever conversation I or my guild leader has had with members of EW or IB about the issue of sups was dont wear em unless you can switch em.

Since you are on speaking terms with Izzy could you ask him for me what ANET are going to do to make sups viable. I am really curious about that and I would owe you one.

Sam

Osi Ri S · Oct 27, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I absolutely love this change.

Not only because swapping armor is annoying but because it's ENTIRELY unrealistic. How can you suddenly put a new pair of pants on mid-battle? Retarded.

LOVE A-net. There are still lots of skills that need fixed but they are doing an excellent job balancing the game.

I didnt know GW was about realism anyway... i mean its realistic when fireballs come out of your hands right?

Desires · Oct 27, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osi Ri S

I didnt know GW was about realism anyway... i mean its realistic when fireballs come out of your hands right?

You can't shoot fireballs out of your hands!!!!!!! Go see a doctor and have those hands checked asap.

JR · Oct 27, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Not at all. Even as far back as the GWWC in Jan PvE toons were the rule, especially for certian classes (HoD helm warriors). PvE monks were also the standard from at least that time for prebuffing boon. Its not new by any stretch -- in fact, its more accurate to say there has never been a GW tournament that did not prominently feature tactical gear swapping.

But by no means did PvE characters dominate the ladder, like they do now. PvE Warriors were popular due to the imbalance of the HoD helm, but PvE characters in general were not very common except for on the very top end of the ladder.

Patrograd · Oct 27, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

That is my assumption. Thanks for clarifying?

I suppose 0 morale no sup -> 10 morale with sup can happen and negate much of the boost. The tradeoffs still exist, it's a morale boost, a tide turner, more HP and energy don't add much but they allow you to add more with a hat swap. The disincentive is the inherent property of the rune, for the boost in attributes, you sacrifice xx health. It's just annoying that they're eliminating the dynamic of the rune.

Well, they're not eliminating it, they are saying, if you bring this rune then you run the consequences, not when it suits you, all the time.

Its like skills, you cant suddenly say "Oh, we're facing a spike team, I'm gonna equip cry of frustration or blackout mid battle". You make do with your build and make it work for the situation

Your armour is like your skillset, make your choice before the battle, depending on the meta, and live or die by the results of that decision. What this effectively does is add another layer of metagame, what runes and inscriptions will you bring into the battle to give you the best chance of winning?

No longer can you say "all of them" and for me, thats a good change.

moriz · Oct 27, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

here's a better solution: allow characters to swap headgear, and only headgear.

problem fixed.

tomcruisejr · Oct 27, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

The same thing applies to armour against various situations. Assess the meta and make your choice. Get it wrong and you suffer, get it right and you dont. Isnt this what it should be about?

rock, paper, scissors, /resign? i say crap pvp.

good gameplay gives you chances to correct the mistakes/error you did mid-battle. chances include working out dp, morale, flagstand control, and yes, armor swapping. as they say, if you got knocked down, you still have the chance to get up.

ah well, as long as they won't change GvG's objective, even the team who has people in it having 2 superior runes, got lotsa dp can still win by pulling out a miracle gank. brains+tactics+luck>armors+builds+weapons+coffee

i minions i · Oct 28, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Im suprised that Anet would go this far.

Someone made a comment about how a person who plays guild wars 24/7 had an unfair advantege.

What you are saying amounts to a player who tries harder shouldn't be rewarded for his effort.

I personally have a pve monk with 4 sets of armor. This update is supposed to balence out the power between the dedicated player and the casual player, but it seems to me to negate the effect of the extra time one puts into being competitive in high level play.

Anet seems to favor the new player more and more and forget good, old fashioned dedication less.

If this is Anet's goal they might as well remove fame too, becuase fame shows not just skill, but time and effort.

I realize this post is almost pointless becuase Anet won't listen to us.

Tainek · Oct 28, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by i minions i

Im suprised that Anet would go this far.

Someone made a comment about how a person who plays guild wars 24/7 had an unfair advantege.

What you are saying amounts to a player who tries harder shouldn't be rewarded for his effort.

I personally have a pve monk with 4 sets of armor. This update is supposed to balence out the power between the dedicated player and the casual player, but it seems to me to negate the effect of the extra time one puts into being competitive in high level play.

Anet seems to favor the new player more and more and forget good, old fashioned dedication less.

If this is Anet's goal they might as well remove fame too, becuase fame shows not just skill, but time and effort.

I realize this post is almost pointless becuase Anet won't listen to us.

Time spent is 100% , absolutly, Completely, Wholely, Irrelivant

The advantage a player gets for more playtime spent should Never be a statistical one, its a knowlege one, as an experianced monk, i still have an advantage over a monk who started a month ago, why?

Because i have something magical, Experiance

Experiance is the reward for extra playtime, and if experiance isnt enough to give you the edge over the competition, and you need a statistical boost (And i'm not just taling to you, i'm talking to everyone) let me be frank, to the point, and not dance around it

You Suck At PvP , So Stop Playing Now, Uninstall the Game, and go play the Sims 2 Where you cant Annoy anyone

pah01 · Oct 28, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by i minions i

Im suprised that Anet would go this far.

Someone made a comment about how a person who plays guild wars 24/7 had an unfair advantege.

What you are saying amounts to a player who tries harder shouldn't be rewarded for his effort.

I personally have a pve monk with 4 sets of armor. This update is supposed to balence out the power between the dedicated player and the casual player, but it seems to me to negate the effect of the extra time one puts into being competitive in high level play.

Anet seems to favor the new player more and more and forget good, old fashioned dedication less.

If this is Anet's goal they might as well remove fame too, becuase fame shows not just skill, but time and effort.

I realize this post is almost pointless becuase Anet won't listen to us.

Why dont you visit GWONLINE. They agree with you over there - and they generally suck at pvp too.

Zui · Oct 28, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by i minions i

Im suprised that Anet would go this far.

Someone made a comment about how a person who plays guild wars 24/7 had an unfair advantege.

What you are saying amounts to a player who tries harder shouldn't be rewarded for his effort.

I personally have a pve monk with 4 sets of armor. This update is supposed to balence out the power between the dedicated player and the casual player, but it seems to me to negate the effect of the extra time one puts into being competitive in high level play.

Anet seems to favor the new player more and more and forget good, old fashioned dedication less.

If this is Anet's goal they might as well remove fame too, becuase fame shows not just skill, but time and effort.

I realize this post is almost pointless becuase Anet won't listen to us.

I'm supprised too, in a very, very good way.

Good PvP revolves around everyone being equal. People would say Chess is a pointless game if White always started missing 3 Pawns, a Bishop, a Knight, and The Queen. Games between equal opposition would be decided upon "I call black, wait, let's flip for it, I call heads!" Sound somewhat crappy to me, one player is most likely going to win, not because they are a better player, but because the game isn't fair.

That player already is. He's now rewarded by spending more time improving his play, and better understanding the game. Before, that player was rewarded for playing through PvE, and getting gold by farming, or buying it. Does having more time to play and spending that time trying to improve yourself automaticaly make that guy a better player? Absolutly not, but it did give him an advantage over other players. Someone can play 1000 games of Chess, but loose to someone who has only played 50 games of Chess, because that guy who had only played 50 games is a much better player. That guy who's played 1000 games has more experience, meaning he has a higher chance of being a better player, but by no means it certain. Is rewarding skill really such a bad thing?

I don't think the entire point of disabling Armor Swapping was to equalise PvPs and PvEs, although it was obviously a contributing factor. I'd venture to guess the reason it was disabled is because the game was never balanced around Armor Swapping. It allowed players to get the benefit from Superior runes, with absolutly no downside to them. One would think that Superior runes have penalties for a potential advantage for a reason. If they didn't, everyone would use them instead of Minors, or Majors. Oh, and the person who puts more time into learning the game has more experience, and thus has a higher chance of being a better player.

Dedication is still rewarded. If you're serious about getting better at the game, you're most likely going to improve as a player. If you don't care at all and play Random Arenas once a month for 30 minutes, you're most likely not going to improve at all. Oh, and you do realise that if no new players get into Guild Wars PvP, Guild Wars PvP will die out, right? Making it more attractive to newer players by making it all about skill, and at the same time making it more attractive to players who don't suck at the game by making it about skill is never a bad thing.

Fame and Armor Swapping are entirely different. So, you could buy both of them with actual money, or in-game money. Big deal. One gives you an actual competitive advantage over another person. The other gives you a shiny emote and a title that give you no advantage at all over someone who's played less, but is much better at Guild Wars than you are. Measures of time and effort are fine in my book, as long as they don't give a player who sucks at the game an advantage over someone who doesn't.

Where have you been? This update and change was what the PvP community wanted. They've been asking for PvP to be about skill, and not PvE grind. They got it. I don't think that's the entire reason armor swapping was fixed, though. I think it was alot more likely that it was never factored into game balance, nor was it ever intended to be in the game. The SoA axe was never intended to let you add another enchanting mod so you could get 40% longer enchantments. It was fixed. Armor Swapping was never intended to be factored into game balance, or give anyone a competitive advantage at all. It was fixed.

Zui · Oct 28, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Why dont you visit GWONLINE. They agree with you over there - and they generally suck at pvp too.

You know, I should have just said that, because it's so true. It's also alot quicker to write...

Lodurr · Oct 28, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

You know, I should have just said that, because it's so true. It's also alot quicker to write...

Tainek put it strongly but I agree with his point. GW is unique among MMOs for making the PvP playing-field level, and that's why I play it. There's no built-in advantage for grinding, only your own skills and knowledge improving.

stueyman2099 · Oct 29, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Seems pretty simple to me...

The lead skill Balancer sees that Armor swaping is bringing an aspect ot his game he doesn't like -> he eliminates that aspect.

The tactics behind it shifts from being able to change yourself midmatch to taking more time to decide what to bring and playing to optimize what you have instead of changing up.

Stilgar BiH · Oct 29, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

i like this change. mid fight armour swaping was silly. ooh that warrior is about to hit me with a hammer, i should remove the tatoos that cover my whole body and put on a proper armour real quick. ill just tatoo myself again 1 minute later

.
it also balances pvp and pve chars, which is good and it was intended from the start

edit: oh i read the whole thread after i posted. just read what zui wrote, now thats a good argument

Nightwish · Oct 30, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by i minions i

Im suprised that Anet would go this far.

Someone made a comment about how a person who plays guild wars 24/7 had an unfair advantege.

What you are saying amounts to a player who tries harder shouldn't be rewarded for his effort.

I personally have a pve monk with 4 sets of armor. This update is supposed to balence out the power between the dedicated player and the casual player, but it seems to me to negate the effect of the extra time one puts into being competitive in high level play.

Anet seems to favor the new player more and more and forget good, old fashioned dedication less.

If this is Anet's goal they might as well remove fame too, becuase fame shows not just skill, but time and effort.

I realize this post is almost pointless becuase Anet won't listen to us.

Dedication? Dedication to a game?! Why should Anet favor someone who spend so much time playing rather than working/studying?

The dedicated players should only have advantage over casual players in terms of experience and not equipment/items.

Yes, I hope Anet wouldnt listen to grinders...

phasola · Oct 30, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Personaly i like not having to grind pve chars for pvp. The only thing i dislike is that they're all ugly

.

pah01 · Oct 30, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

Personaly i like not having to grind pve chars for pvp. The only thing i dislike is that they're all ugly

.

I am never going to PVE again.

Sam

@Stuey - I hope Izzy realized he just removed superior runes from the game.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 30, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@Stuey - I hope Izzy realized he just removed superior runes from the game.

I disagree. There are characters that superior runes are still completely viable on.