Curse

Zui · Nov 03, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Rampage Thumper
Ranger/Warrior

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
8+2 Expertise

1. Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
2. Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
3. Protector's Strike (Strength)
4. Comfort Animal (Beast Mastery)
5. Bestial Mauling (Beast Mastery)
6. Rampage as One [Elite] (Beast Mastery)
7. Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Rampage Thumper
Ranger/Warrior

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
8+2 Expertise

1. Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
2. Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
3. Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
4. Distracting Blow (Non-Attributed)
5. Comfort Animal (Beast Mastery)
6. Rampage as One [Elite] (Beast Mastery)
7. Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Meleehate Mesmer
Mesmer/Necromancer

6+1 Fast Casting
12+2 Illusion Magic
11+1+2 Inspiration Magic
1+1 Domination Magic
2 Curses

1. Expel Hexes [Elite] (Non-Attributed)
2. Spirit of Failure (Inspiration Magic)
3. Price of Failure (Curses)
4. Parasitic Bond (Curses)
5. Spirit Shackles (Inspiration Magic)
6. Complicate (Domination Magic)
7. Distortion (Illusion Magic)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Blessed Light Monk
Monk/Assassin

11+1+3 Divine Favor
10+1 Healing Prayers
4+1 Protection Prayers
9 Shadow Arts

1. Return (Shadow Arts)
2. Deny Hexes* (Non-Attributed)
3. Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
4. Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
5. Blessed Light [Elite] (Divine Favor)
6. Gift of Health (Healing Prayers)
7. Healing Touch (Healing Prayers)
8. Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)

Note: You can run any number of other skills here, for exameple Holy Veil, or Mending Touch.

11/9/06 Update:

Replaced Mokele Smash on the first Thumper for Comfort Animal.
Replaced Irresistible Blow on the first Thumper for Protector's Strike.
Replaced Mokele Smash on the second Thumper for Distracting Blow.
Replaced Bestial Mauling on the second Thumper for Comfort Animal.
Fixed attributes for both thumpers to what they should be.

11/11/6 Update:

Replaced Drain Enchantment on the Meleehate Mesmer with Complicate.

Chewbacca Defense · Nov 03, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

LMAO!!!

I got pwned by your team 3 times yesterday. Was really fun though. I like the use of Beastial Mauling - it hurts so much.

Divineshadows · Nov 03, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Meleehate Mesmer
Mesmer/Necromancer

8+2 Illusion Magic
7+1+2 Inspiration Magic
8+1 Fast Casting
12 Curses

1. Expel Hexes [Elite] (Non-Attributed)
2. Spirit of Failure (Inspiration Magic)
3. Price of Failure (Curses)
4. Parasitic Bond (Curses)
5. Spirit Shackles (Inspiration Magic)
6. Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
7. Distortion (Illusion Magic)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Not really seeing the need for 12 curses in this build as the gains on price of failure and parasitic bond are very minimal in the higher levels. The hex duration is what matters most on these 2 spells and these hexes happen to have the same duration even at 0 curses. Would you not rather have more inspiration and/or fast casting?

JR · Nov 03, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Not really seeing the need for 12 curses in this build as the gains on price of failure and parasitic bond are very minimal in the higher levels. Would you not rather have more inspiration and/or fast casting?

Infact you could arguably run that bar at 0 curses, and it would still be fairly effective. Spec into the important attributes first, dump leftover points into Curses.

Zui · Nov 04, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Very good point with the points in Curses. I never even questioned the attribute set, even though I wasn't running the anti-melee. We were winning, and the opposing melees weren't really doing much to anyone, so I never bothered objectively looking at it.

New attributes for the meleehate:

6+1 Fast Casting
12+2 Illusion Magic
11+1+2 Inspiration Magic
2 Curses

You hit breakpoint for Spirit of Failure and Distortion now, which I like alot more. You loose in 2 Fast Casting, which is really insignificant IMHO.

OP has been updated.

Gumby · Nov 04, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

more BM, less Exp

Zui · Nov 04, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

more BM, less Exp

Provide some math, or at least rationalization as to why I would want to do that.

Gumby · Nov 04, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

cause pets cause more dmg with higher BM, u have a couple BM skills, and normally thumpers aren't that hard pressed for energy
mayb 10+3+1 beast and 8+2 exp..

Legendary Shiz · Nov 04, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Rampage as one is 25e gumby, not sure if you realize that.

I actually use 13 exp when I run this. 12 hammer and 10 beast.

Zui · Nov 04, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

cause pets cause more dmg with higher BM, u have a couple BM skills, and normally thumpers aren't that hard pressed for energy
mayb 10+3+1 beast and 8+2 exp..

Base pet attack speed is 2.14s. The average damage per hit for an Elder pet at 12 Beast Mastery is 24.4. The average damage per hit for an Elder pet at 14 Beast Mastery is 26.2. This means the average DPS at the base attack speed at 12 Beast Mastery is 11.4, and the average DPS at the base attack speed for 14 Beast Mastery is 12.2. There's a 0.8 DPS difference between 12 and 14 Beast Mastery. This does not change at all under Rampage as One(the actual DPS increases, the difference between it does not), because pets do not auto-crit on fleeing targets, and because the 33% attack speed increase and 25% run buff applies equaly at both 12, and 14 Beast Mastery.

There's a 2 second difference in Dazed duration from Bestial Mauling, and differnece of 2 damage at 12 Beast Mastery compared to 14 Beast Mastery. Since if Dazed isn't removed by 17 seconds, either by a condition removal, or the target dying, there's a huge problem, with both teams. As for the Two damage, that's insignificant. I'd run Bestial Mauling in this build even if it did no additional damage. Plus it's not like you can even use it more than 3 times a minute, I don't think less than .1 DPS, or 6 DPM from Bestial Mauling is worth loosing those points in Expertise. I say less than .1 DPS because it's not like you will ever use Bestial Mauling on recharge in an actual game.

So, all in all you have an absolute maximum of an additional .9 DPS from your pet at 14 Beast Mastery versus 12 Beast Mastery. You get nothing else that will help you against a good team. Well, I should say you do get 2 additional seconds on Rampage as One, but I'll be covering that next.

Rampage as One costs 25 base Energy. It has a recharge of 20 seconds, and no activation time. At 12 Beast Mastery it lasts 22 seconds. At 14 Beast Mastery it lasts 24 seconds. That's a two second difference. A Ranger has 3 pips of Energy Regeneration, which eqauls 60 Energy Per Minute, or one Energy Per Second. Thus, a Ranger will gain two Energy in the two additional seconds Rampage as One is active. 12 Expertise as opposed to 10 Expertise makes 25 energy skills cost two less energy. It also makes 15 Energy skills cost 2 less energy, and 10 Energy skills cost 1 less energy, although there are no 10 or 15 Energy skills on the Thumpers bar.

Even though you have provided absolutly no math, and flawed reasoning with 'rage thumpers aren't that hard pressed for energy,' you are correct. Even though by reading your post it seems like it did not even occur to you that Rangers gain 2 energy per second, and that 12 Expertise only reduces the energy cost on Rage as One by 2, but running it decreases its duration by 2 secconds, making the cost on everything equal at both levels, but reducing damage by ~.9 DPS. Either way, thanks for the suggestion. And without further ado...

New attributes for both Thumpers:

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
10+2 Expertise

OP has been updated.

Gumby · Nov 04, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

your semi-intellegent mumbo jumbo means nothing to me..
but i was right thats the important part ^_^

Ajantis · Nov 04, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Hm, never ran Mokele Smash on a thumper before

Usually go in with distracting blow, guess it's a matter of preference

Zui · Nov 04, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

your semi-intellegent mumbo jumbo means nothing to me..
but i was right thats the important part ^_^

The fact you were right is good, sure. I don't really care if you're right or wrong.

However, you weren't right for the correct reasons. So quite honestly, you can't take much credit for being right. If I told you the Earth was round because grass is green, you would think I'm an absolute idiot who has no clue what I'm talking about, and you'd be right about that. But, I'd be right too, because the Earth is round! Perhaps you see how dumb that sounds? Knowing 1+1=2 is all well and good, but if you get to 1+1 being two by going 1 + 1 = 8162842649 + 73452 = 2 that just means that you suck badly at math and *were wrong* with how you got your answer, but still got the answer correct for whatever reason.

As for the "semi intellegent mumbo jumbo meaning nothing" to you, I have to laugh at that as well. It just proves you are infact an idiot.

Either way, there's no point to this discussion at all, it has absolutly nothing to do with the thread, and everything to do with you having no clue about what you were talking about and still somehow being right. If you really feel this needs discussing more, please just handle it with PMs... Don't muddy up an otherwise productive and worthwhile thread with this garbage.

Sol Constituent · Nov 05, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

yeah, we hit your guild again last night. same build, except i think you were running a N/Me, not Me/N. not sure what it was doing... i was monking and didn't see. but yeah. we got owned.

Sol Constituent · Nov 05, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

yeah, we hit your guild again last night. same build, except i think you were running a N/Me, not Me/N. not sure what it was doing... i was monking and didn't see. but yeah. we got owned.

Legendary Shiz · Nov 05, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

hehe yeah I remember playing you guys. We were only running the N/Me because he was too lazy to reroll haha.

VODA... · Nov 07, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Would it hurt the build if one would replace mokele smash with comfort animal on the ranger thumpers?

I think it doesnt, but maybe i'm overlooking something..

Divineshadows · Nov 07, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by VODA...

Would it hurt the build if one would replace mokele smash with comfort animal on the ranger thumpers?

I think it doesnt, but maybe i'm overlooking something..

The build lacking pet rez gives it a front-loaded aspect. Given this, if I was in a competent team playing against this build my team's goals would be:

1. reduce enough of the two rampage thumpers' damage that they do not wipe my team.
2. put some degen on the pets
3. still pressuring the monk, mesmer, and rangers enough that the monk cannot afford to heal the pets

If these goals can be accomplished and you kill off both of the pets, then your team would likely win even if you have one less rez sig than they do.

In my opinion, this build would become more solid (albeit a bit weaker on the front side) by dropping mokele smash, irresistible blow, or bestial mauling for comfort animal. The selection of the skill to drop for comfort could differ between the two thumpers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
10+2 Expertise

I smell greater than 200 attribute points.

Oblivix · Nov 07, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Rage Thumper
Ranger/Warrior

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
10+2 Expertise

1. Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
2. Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
3. Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
4. Mokele Smash (Hammer Mastery)
5. Bestial Mauling (Beast Mastery)
6. Rampage as One [Elite] (Beast Mastery)
7. Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Rage Thumper
Ranger/Warrior

12 Hammer Mastery
10+3+1 Beast Mastery
10+2 Expertise

1. Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
2. Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
3. Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
4. Mokele Smash (Hammer Mastery)
5. Bestial Mauling (Beast Mastery)
6. Rampage as One [Elite] (Beast Mastery)
7. Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)
8. Resurrection Signet (Non-Attributed)

Is there some difference in these two I'm not seeing?

Legendary Shiz · Nov 07, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivix

Is there some difference in these two I'm not seeing?

Nope. One can bring wild blow, but usually the thumpers will have similar builds.

I like running only one thumper with dazed (bestial mauling) and another with distracting lunge. But that's just me, dazed > rupting IMO. But fitting in deep wound and dazed can be hard in just one kd.

And tbh, I love mokele smash in this build. You *could* use a rez for you pet I guess. However, mokele smash is just so perfect for this build. For one, it adds a lot more damage, and two it adds back adrenaline. That means your opponent will spend a lot more time on the ground because of kd.

It's really all your personal choice, Zui was just giving you one option. I like his very much though.