Curse

0mar · Oct 31, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

HA is still an incestous pool of rank-flashing. I've avoided it for a long time now, and I'm glad I did.

Do us all a favor and let it die

GvG is so much better.

master_of_puppets · Nov 01, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

trust me. it will all boil down to that.

anyway, good way to discourage players or eliminate heroway from HA is to constantly defeat it. no one will run a build that always loses right?

so go inside HA, defeat all heroways and then itll be eliminated in HA. prove to everyone that 6 brains (not 1 caller+5 drones) are always better than 1 brain and 5 AI so people who really want to win will get 5 human partymates. we all know that less forum QQing is key.

wtf Everyone already knows that heroway sucks. Do you seriously think there was one person that did heroway that was actually hoping to win halls or even make it far? The reason people do it is that instead of having to spend half an hour getting 5 other players only to have someone say "I g2g" right before you enter and then someone getting err07 later, you can quickly set up any build you want for 4 of the 6 characters. (you and 3 heroes) and then you only need 2 more people or just take 2 henchies. You can definitely earn some fame because the chances of you facing other heroways are very high at this point in time.

Thom · Nov 01, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Has a good PvP player put enough time into mastering Hero controls to conclude that all heros suck all the time?

There simply hasn't been enough time for optimization to conclued generally that heros are worse than actual players. I've casually watched and adjusted my heros while PvEing and feel there is significant upside for potential optimization.

The inherent advantages to having heros is you know exactly what their situation is at all times and they react totally predictably. If I'm monking and Koss is attacking, I have a complete list of enchantments and conditions on him. If he is under endure I know how long I have until he needs a big heal. If I want to put spirit bond on a target or aegis on the team, I can go cast skills. If I have an elementalist, I can shut off skills that aren't needed to allow him to focus on heal or damage.

Obviously a hero will never be better than a good PvP player with solid communication. Similarly a player team will never have the instant communication a hero team is naturally endowed with. I would argue that a good hero team should pwn most pugs. Before November is over someone will popularize a Hero build which will not "suck".

s w o r d y · Nov 01, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

6v6 made HA fresh

Heros made it stale again

A User Name · Nov 01, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Well I dont play HA often (GvG is where its at lol) but when I do I'd rather not waste my time looking for people, getting builds together, and then have it fail since people dont listen to calls or whatever. While the heros' AI isnt the best you can tell them what to do and they will do it unlike some players lol. I personally like the fact that they are in HA, because as you guys complain about IWAY and what VIMWAY used to be its free fame an easy win, the good tatician with the heroes has more of a chance than those two did. Having done heroway a couple times tbh it was quite fun and I eliminated more 6 man teams than I did heroway (maybe I was lucky but I dk), but the important part is it's fun, and I would guess it allows for noobs to get a grasp of the level needed for PvP rather than forcing them into a limited range of thought needed to reach the r3 mark, and the fame farming needed for that. Anyway only my opinion.

Helios Skyfire · Nov 01, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Ok, if the big arguement is "Heroway sucks anyway - it'll go away once the scrubs realize that"...why am I seeing top-rated guilds using it?

I just observed moded a #30, #60 and #11 guild - and each of them were using Heroway. One Team had 1 Player, one had 2 Players, The other had 2 again.

And most of their opponents were running heroway, too!

Fortunately - the non-hero-using teams I saw generally WHIPPED the heroway teams...but that's not exactly the point.

If even the top-rated guilds are running heroway...what chance do the 'scrubs' have to avoid it?

Khift · Nov 01, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Notice, with the addition of heroes, there are far fewer ViM teams being advertised.

This has more to do with ViM being nerfed to hell than heroway being a viable alternative. Not to say heroway isn't a viable alternative, though.

Pen_Cap · Nov 01, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I still find it funny that with all this said that none of the A-Net admins have even bothered to post or say anything about it.

Don't tell me you don't read this because Gaile Gray has posted in one of my threads before.

Its obvious ANet that there is a severe problem here. Bots versus Bots isn't fun. When I used to win halls it felt good. Now the favor system is just mudled with no sense of accomplishment.

Sure. If I want to win I could go load a group of heroes and henches and sit there doing my homework while they fight for me. But I refuse to do that. I worked hard to reach the level of play that I'm at.

You say you want to make rank more achievable for newer players, but we have all had to go through the same thing. None of use just *bling* receieved our rank. We all worked hard for it.

I mean what would happen if the #1 guild out there won the championship using only heroes and henchman??? I wonder what you would do then?? I actually hope that happens so you can see what a stupid mistake you have made.

Bottom line. If we wanted to fight bots we could go to zaishen or the heroes arena... P v P = Player Versus Player... Computer controlled AI doesn't belong.

No one likes the heroes in pvp. Oh wait... except Gaile Gray... but hmmm... she doesn't even play there. Funny. Maybe update your QA department with some real gw players.

Mad Punisher · Nov 01, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

imo its not as bad as you guys describe the problem

most henchways get pwned in uw or at broken tower. Call this easy fame? I support it cause its much harder in 6vs6 to gain fame than b4. And if you find a henchway and lose by it then think: i just got pwned from alesia? wtf...#$# and you would propably get pwned by most (human) teams.
Really i dont see any big problem. 90% after broken tower its pure pvp. If you find a heroe-way at hoh the ppl who lead the hench actually deserve to get there and dont forge that you actually face THEM and not the henchies.

Pen_Cap · Nov 01, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Punisher

imo its not as bad as you guys describe the problem

most henchways get pwned in uw or at broken tower. Call this easy fame? I support it cause its much harder in 6vs6 to gain fame than b4. And if you find a henchway and lose by it then think: i just got pwned from alesia? wtf...#$# and you would propably get pwned by most (human) teams.
Really i dont see any big problem. 90% after broken tower its pure pvp. If you find a heroe-way at hoh the ppl who lead the hench actually deserve to get there and dont forge that you actually face THEM and not the henchies.

I've seen excellent r9+ teams rolled by perfectly timed AI. (my team included) Yet you tell me that becuase I got pwned by heroes that I would lose to real people?? I think your just talking cause you like the sound of your voice. I guess I got r9 some other way then being good hmmm??

Your only a fan of it because your probably unranked and now you found an easy way to earn your precious bambi. Nevermind that fact that everyone else has had to work for their rank.

I can see how a noob would love the easy way out. GG.

*EDIT* Observer some HA battles. Heroe/Henchway teams are holding halls repeatedly. All player teams get owned quickly. The proof is in observer mode.

Patrograd · Nov 01, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Skyfire

If even the top-rated guilds are running heroway...what chance do the 'scrubs' have to avoid it?

Well it seems to me that what you are describing is one or two players from a top ranked guild having a bit of fun.

To me, this sums up the whole situation. HA is supposed to be a bit of fun imo, its hardly the highest level of PVP certainly. if people want to go in and have some fun with heros, then why not? As a format it doesnt even get remotely seriously until the much later maps anyway when you face the better teams, so just beat up on the heros, take your fame as you used to fm IWAY and VIMWAY (which are surely more mindless than heroway for the most part) and move onto the later maps, which is what you're there for anyway right?

Until such time as these heroway teams are winning, I dont see it as an issue at all. FWIW I think that once people figure heros out properly then I can actually see them winning at lower levels of PVP quite regularly.

red orc · Nov 01, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

I've been playing TA/RA for quite some time now. Got my gladiator with hard
work using an earth/air ele. This char is not so easy to play in those arenas.
Anyway, I'm new to HA. I think 6vs6 was smart, for it was impossible
for new players to enter HA before. I got only couple of fame and got rolled
over several times by better teams.
However I join the call remove heros from this arena. This should be pvp arena
and not pve arena. I'd like to see my advesary think and act as people do.
I'd like to see them change tactics, make mistakes
and I'd like to know that on the other side there is a person not a computer.
I've played pve and it was fun for a time, but the only reason I play this
game at all (and for quite some time now) is the pvp.
I've played other games before, but the only ones that I keep playing is pvp games.
I think the hero move was smart in pve, cause getting groups in pve can be hard for some characters
and when you play pve you may not want to interact with real players.
But putting them in pvp completely misses the point and pvp player will drop bacause of it.
Maybe anet is not interested anymore in people palying lots of time.
They maybe more interested in us buying the new release.

sir lockt · Nov 01, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Bascially I agree with Patrograd in the above post...but lets put it somewhat harder... (oil on the fire muahaha)

Why are hero's a problem? I like heroes...since they outperform a lot of players out there... they listen to you... you can equip them with the right skills and they dont have a rank they grinded by "c-spacing"

Actually I believe the level of HA actually improved by heroes...

[/end of oil on fire throwing mode...]

Of course this is a huge generalisation... HA or actually tombs came from a high level and descended in the course of time... MF came, Smite came, IWAY came, Smite returned, ViM came and now heroes are here... a lot easier to find heroes then a decent PuG. Of course "N" FTW...

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.knbk

^^ If you're in organized teams with TS/vent how the hell are you rank 1?

not playing more then twice? (it have to be twice...since teamS... so it cant be HoH runs

)

Inner Salbat · Nov 01, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pen_Cap

I've seen excellent r9+ teams rolled by perfectly timed AI. (my team included) Yet you tell me that becuase I got pwned by heroes that I would lose to real people?? I think your just talking cause you like the sound of your voice. I guess I got r9 some other way then being good hmmm??

Your only a fan of it because your probably unranked and now you found an easy way to earn your precious bambi. Nevermind that fact that everyone else has had to work for their rank.

I can see how a noob would love the easy way out. GG.

*EDIT* Observer some HA battles. Heroe/Henchway teams are holding halls repeatedly. All player teams get owned quickly. The proof is in observer mode.

I can't say I'm surprised by this at all, no matter what way you swing it, there will always be lag issues with players vs players (with the AI there is no lag per-say, because the AI is running on server that is ahead of every human playing, doesn't matter what kind of connection you've got, a henchman will react faster, hence forth we have skills that have no cast time, being interrupted)

This is about the same in my book as using an Aimbot in Unreal Tournament, if you don't know what an aimbot is, it's basically an AI of sorts that aims by itself and shoots on it's own, when it's located a target.

Pen_Cap · Nov 01, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I can't say I'm surprised by this at all, no matter what way you swing it, there will always be lag issues with players vs players (with the AI there is no lag per-say, because the AI is running on server that is ahead of every human playing, doesn't matter what kind of connection you've got, a henchman will react faster, hence forth we have skills that have no cast time, being interrupted)

This is about the same in my book as using an Aimbot in Unreal Tournament, if you don't know what an aimbot is, it's basically an AI of sorts that aims by itself and shoots on it's own, when it's located a target.

Which is the exact reason we all are wanting them removed from halls and gvg. Why would anyone wanna play with real people when they could just load some henchies and let them do all the work. Anet is destroying their own game by letting henchies remain.

Ghost Recon · Nov 01, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quite a few of you are saying how unfair they are because they own r9 teams flawlessly but half the rank 9 players are totally crap players as they just IWAY'ed there rank.

Also Aimbot in UT is a bit different as you can always ban the cheaters from the server

phasola · Nov 01, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

I like how hench remove hexes before they're even applied
h4x0rz

Inner Salbat · Nov 01, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

Quite a few of you are saying how unfair they are because they own r9 teams flawlessly but half the rank 9 players are totally crap players as they just IWAY'ed there rank.

Also Aimbot in UT is a bit different as you can always ban the cheaters from the server

LOL, waiting for the banned hero's from the game, mistakenly taken for farming bots.

Yes they are a bit different this is true, but the idea is the same more or less, if you could (and I guess this already showing it's colors to some degree) setup henchmen to attack perfectly every time that becomes, an unplayable game, for example, b-spike set up 4 hero's as necro's and you can have a perfect spike every time without fail done correctly of course, which means you've turned a complete nub into a expert unbeatable b-spiker from the get go, which will if ArenaNet keep the track record, of being arrogant about there game, or is that ignorance no matter, will nerf the skills rather than remove the damn things from the game in the first place, which should have never been there from the get go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

I like how hench remove hexes before they're even applied
h4x0rz

Yup and you know why? don't you.

Player Casts a "Hex" - packet goes off to server.

Server notifies henchmen with hex applied, or being cast.

Henchmen instantly casts hex removal, because of that notification

And finally you the player gets to see nothing done by your hex, due to the fact that by the time the server has notified you that it's been added to the player targeted, it's already been removed.

Which is completely dumb, and is the express reason why, AI should never be allowed in PvP.

Fine if you want to take henchmen as has always been done, with henchway, whatever I don't care, but hero's because of the customization need to be thrown out, and put where they damn well belong, in Hero Battles that's what it was designed for, I have a feeling that they didn't feel that this would be enough to appease the PvP crowd into buying nightfall, so they added it to HA & GvG as well, so that they could re-use content rather than have to use there brains and develop something new.

Is it so hard, to have a Hero's Ascent that allows for PvP, and one that only allows for PvAI, where the 2 don't collide with each other ever?

Aside from this, we all knew nightfall was PvE focused, so these hero's should not be there anyway, they are a dynamic of the game that should only be allow to be play ageist or with if you own nightfall.

I'm sorry but I fail to see why ANet wouldn't have seen this coming, they either have really lost touch with there own game, or there trying to sink it.

Zeldawind · Nov 01, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

Quite a few of you are saying how unfair they are because they own r9 teams flawlessly but half the rank 9 players are totally crap players as they just IWAY'ed there rank.

Oh this is so true. I know unranked people who are better then r12 people its to lovely to see that.

(in a full human group btw

)

But now to the point its getting to boring to play HA jsut face the same over and over. We start underworld, hmm let's check out what they are o gues what its heroway. Then we get at broken tower. Hmmm o dear we got 2 hero teams ganking on us because were a full human team or something hmm thats lame. Sometimes we lose sometimes we win even whit this Cuz whit heroway to us its more or the less survive the first blast then its GG. Then comes Scarred earth hmm dammit another heroway team o wait theres another human team yay finally a challenge. Then relic run sometimes hero sometimes human owel lets go in. Then the rest varies aswell more or the less.
Whit all these heroway ok its nice to have some free fame. But still bleeeh its so freaking boring.
Against full human teams its just more fun to play against them. Because they can change their strat in the game itself a heroteam will keep on doing the same thing. Find some key characters then its pretty much GG.
So that's why i like to see hero's be banned or change the ammount of non human playres that are allowed inside 1 team. Because this just isnt fun anymore.

Mental Leteci · Nov 01, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

I've been playing TA/RA for quite some time now. Got my gladiator with hard
work using an earth/air ele. This char is not so easy to play in those arenas.
Anyway, I'm new to HA. I think 6vs6 was smart, for it was impossible
for new players to enter HA before.

WTF? Why people keep saying this, why did 2 slots less make people enter HA easier? It's all the same, people still ask for ranks...

And this with heroes, Gaile said she likes it which means ANet might be making this game to suit them, not us.