Curse

Lord Mendes · Oct 30, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Why is it so "unfun" to play against a heroway team rather than a r3/6 vimway pug?

look man, i would rather PvP (player vs player) against players. There is a "social" aspect to it... If i wanted 2 play against bots i would simply run CS and add bots, that simple.
People play PvP games (player vs player) online for the sake of playing against other people around the world, not against bots.
Playing against real people is much more enjoyable to most HAers.
Look i am not a 14 year old who is pissed because he cant get past the underworld, i am just posting here because i dont enjoy playing against bots.

SirShadowrunner · Oct 30, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Mr eX.. there is no real "rank elitism".. no matter what people say about that if they were eg rank8 they would try to play with people around there rank... its how it works, You play with people at your level and they play with people at theres its how things work good or not.

I am not picking one you, and I hope they get this fixed for the better, but I believe
your comment here is "elitist" and shows how ppl only want to win, hence why we
see changes made, I am sorry for all who are disappointed with the changes made,
we all see things come along that we don't like.

good luck and have fun.......

Misa · Oct 30, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

After running against heroway and running heroway with a friend... my conclusion is:

Heroes in HA are r15+

They are awesome interrupters, healers (infuse ftw), FAST res-ers, and they always follow the target.. yey!

Altho I had fun running with heroes in HA... now I kinda got bored with them :T I like playing with real ppl and have good laughs.

Kex Doomlich · Oct 30, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

So sad. HA has become PVE. Very gay i must say. I'm hoping that arenanet will delete heroes and henchmen from PVP.

Lord Mendes · Oct 30, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misa

Altho I had fun running with heroes in HA... now I kinda got bored with them :T I like playing with real ppl and have good laughs.

QFT
that is why i pvp and that is why heroes are an issue in halls atm.

And about the rank elitist BS, plz plz plz no1 started playing at rank 6, every1 had 2 start somewhere.
I am sorry to say this but 99% of ranked players are better at HA than unranked players. I am sorry if this is going off topic and plz feel free 2 delete if it is.

Julen · Oct 30, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

they might as well give fame for victories in the zaishen challenge arena...

its just sad atm.

Patrograd · Oct 30, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Well, i dont play HA so cant comment on side of it.

We see them quite a bit in GvG though, and they present slightly more of a challenge than the old henchway used to. In fact, night before ladder unlocked we played with 4 heros and I have to say, I have played with many, many worse monks than Dunkaro who kites for the most part like a pro (despite a rather annoying habit of kiting into walls and cul de sacs).

I can see that facing the same mindless challenge over and over in HA would get pretty tiresome though. I guess Heros have only made this worse.

Lena A · Oct 30, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

I have played with many, many worse monks than Dunkaro who kites for the most part like a pro (despite a rather annoying habit of kiting into walls and cul de sacs).

He is also a l33t interupt. Give him PDrain and you can use any elite monk skill.

But they are quite bad at splitting.

Helios Skyfire · Oct 30, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

And if you give them all a spike skill and use the manual skill buttons you can spike an opponent easy! [/hate]

Alleji · Oct 30, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

LOL.

HA is a joke now. For me, HA was ruined with the 6v6 change, that's when I quit tombs. Now, I'm back playing tombs because of heroes, at least until it gets boring. I tested out a few builds this morning and they're all a lot of fun to play... a good one rolls both human and hero teams (although I haven't played anyone good yet) but the healer henchie as the only monk can't really keep the ghost alive for more than 5 seconds, which makes Broken Tower really, really bitchy.

So WTB a human monk and we'll be off to duo-farm the new PvPvE Tombs with a B/P hero team.

GG anet, you made another arena where people play for shits and giggles and now we have only one left for serious competition. (GvG)

tomcruisejr · Oct 30, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

the AI of the heroes is more superior than most players, and that's a challenge.

i'd rather figure out how to beat them heroways than feasting on NOOB PLAYERS WHO I CAN DEFEAT EASILY AND WHO LOSE VS HEROES (myself included).

and stop the "if i wanna play vs npcs, id rather play pve". Hero AI (Hero Monk, as they've said, kite like a pro. Hero interrupter interrupts even warrior attack skills. Etc etc.) >>> PvE AI + Most of the PLAYERS COMBINED.

tomcruisejr · Oct 30, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Why is it so "unfun" to play against a heroway team rather than a r3/6 vimway pug?

coz vimway is easier to beat that heroway. and if you got beaten by heroway, it makes you less than a man and wanna cut your throat.

i think. lol.

Riotgear · Oct 30, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena A

He is also a l33t interupt. Give him PDrain and you can use any elite monk skill.

Give him Expel Hexes.

Quote:

Hero interrupter interrupts even warrior attack skills.

No, they won't, they only interrupt things with a fixed casting time.

hyro yamaguchi · Oct 30, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Well I'm a bad player, I'm only rank one, I guess I'm the target group of Anet, how come I don't feel lucky?

Patccmoi · Oct 30, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I agree that this situation is sad and quite stupid.

I don't like facing heroes either. The thing is now there is no learning curve at all. People don't have to improve, start in RA/TA and learn to PvP.

You're alone? Get 3 Heroes-2 Henchies and go go! I mean hell, why would anyone ever RA when they can get Heroes, Henchies and go in HA? You know they'll be better than RA people, and you gain fame.

It's not about skill. It's not about being elitist (hell i'm R6 in HA and i don't HA that much overall, i mostly GvG). It's about wanting to PvP against people. If HA is a 6 men Zaishen Arena with random builds, what's the point? If there is inhuman reflexes involved (Infuse and interrupts are pretty good proofs of this...) it's just lame to me. No, i can't interrupt as well as a hero. Nobody can. When you want to do some spikes (either a spike team or playing balanced and doing some mini-spikes) before there was strategies like faking target, etc. Now? The Hero won't notice you're trying to fake target. He'll just Infuse the spike if it doesn't kill in less than .25s.

Sure there is likely hero abuse you can find. For example i'm sure there is skills that heroes have just very bad AI against (hell, for all i know Othyug's Cry could send all enemy heroes attacking your target =p), like Diversion, etc. They can't always make intelligent decisions. But they're bots, and bots are lame. It DOESN'T MATTER if they're very good or very bad. Fighting bots is not what i PvP for. I play PvP to fight people with people, talking to them, make a joke, for pointless banther once in a while just for a laugh... there is a social aspect to PvP which is what many PvPers want. I don't care about being the best at killing bots or at killing people with bots. I don't want to get good at either. I want to PvP. They have an arena for PvP heroes. Leave them there and in skirmishes...

At least in GvG they aren't very good at tactical decisions. But then again if a few people start finding winning builds abusing heroes in some way, they'll be used for sure, it's mostly a matter of time...

I'd also like to point out that heroes are a HUGE imbalance between people owning Nightfall and not. If you don't own Nightfall and you're below R6, it's likely even worse to find a team than it was before because everyone below that that has Nightfall is heroing for rank.

The solution i agree the most with is something like limit AI (Heroes + Hench) to 1 per team in TA, 2 per team in HA and 3 per team in GvG. You'll still see them a lot likely and people that have a hard time completing group can fit in their heroes. But you won't see 1 guy + 5 AI, which is the main problem. Because anyone alone can just enters HA with heroes and hench.

hyro yamaguchi · Oct 30, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Next chapter: GvG becomes 6v6, low ranked guilds start with 10% morale boost, and GvB (Guild versus Bots) becomes the new PvP mode, which will make your guild top ranked if they simply farm bots.

Carth` · Oct 30, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

No, they won't, they only interrupt things with a fixed casting time.

No, I gave the ranger distracting and savage shot, and she uses distracting on a warrior attacking with no attack skills. Perhaps pretending to try and get a lucky interrupt, because she certainly wasn't spiking. :P

Back on topic, I think heroes should be removed from all forms of PvP except hero battles.

Julen · Oct 30, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

I agree that this situation is sad and quite stupid.

I don't like facing heroes either. The thing is now there is no learning curve at all. People don't have to improve, start in RA/TA and learn to PvP.

You're alone? Get 3 Heroes-2 Henchies and go go! I mean hell, why would anyone ever RA when they can get Heroes, Henchies and go in HA? You know they'll be better than RA people, and you gain fame.

It's not about skill. It's not about being elitist (hell i'm R6 in HA and i don't HA that much overall, i mostly GvG). It's about wanting to PvP against people. If HA is a 6 men Zaishen Arena with random builds, what's the point? If there is inhuman reflexes involved (Infuse and interrupts are pretty good proofs of this...) it's just lame to me. No, i can't interrupt as well as a hero. Nobody can. When you want to do some spikes (either a spike team or playing balanced and doing some mini-spikes) before there was strategies like faking target, etc. Now? The Hero won't notice you're trying to fake target. He'll just Infuse the spike if it doesn't kill in less than .25s.

Sure there is likely hero abuse you can find. For example i'm sure there is skills that heroes have just very bad AI against (hell, for all i know Othyug's Cry could send all enemy heroes attacking your target =p), like Diversion, etc. They can't always make intelligent decisions. But they're bots, and bots are lame. It DOESN'T MATTER if they're very good or very bad. Fighting bots is not what i PvP for. I play PvP to fight people with people, talking to them, make a joke, for pointless banther once in a while just for a laugh... there is a social aspect to PvP which is what many PvPers want. I don't care about being the best at killing bots or at killing people with bots. I don't want to get good at either. I want to PvP. They have an arena for PvP heroes. Leave them there and in skirmishes...

At least in GvG they aren't very good at tactical decisions. But then again if a few people start finding winning builds abusing heroes in some way, they'll be used for sure, it's mostly a matter of time...

I'd also like to point out that heroes are a HUGE imbalance between people owning Nightfall and not. If you don't own Nightfall and you're below R6, it's likely even worse to find a team than it was before because everyone below that that has Nightfall is heroing for rank.

The solution i agree the most with is something like limit AI (Heroes + Hench) to 1 per team in TA, 2 per team in HA and 3 per team in GvG. You'll still see them a lot likely and people that have a hard time completing group can fit in their heroes. But you won't see 1 guy + 5 AI, which is the main problem. Because anyone alone can just enters HA with heroes and hench.

QFT

sums up my thoughts perfectly.

ibex333 · Oct 30, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northrog

The goal of nightfall is to make GW a rts game or a cooperative one ?

How about... BOTH?

As one person said in the PvE farming nerf thread: "LESS CRYING IS KEY"

Former Ruling · Oct 30, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Alot of HA scrubs in this thread lol.

Complaining because they don't want to admit their rank9+ team got Flawlessed by NPC teams.