Curse

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

nice to see someone who isnt a total moron... i do orders for topk every once in a while.... when i get bored or miss the feeling of 8 man HA... and i swear almost every monk that goes in there is woh/ healing breeze. for once, id like to see a mo/me enter topk.... i guess pve nubs will never learn.

Byron · Oct 24, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

I don't see why it wouldn't be very easy to pull off. You look at health bars, if health goes down you use a healing spell, if someone gets spiked you use infuse. If someone gets a hex you use hex removal.

That is laughable - I myself feel insulted. Monking is not simple; it's the hardest slot to play (with the possible exception of warrior caller) because it recieves the most hate and also has the most important responsibility, which is keeping the team alive. As a non-monk, you are 100% effective at 1 HP, and 0% effective at 0 HP.

Good monking takes keen reflexes, a broad battlefield awareness, and a heapload of experience. It is much more than babysitting the party screen, even in HA play. Play more monk and you will appreciate it.

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

In all honesty, monking is not all that challenging, its just different. every character has to micromanage, monks just have to do it differently. the amount of work needed to be a monk and the amount of work needed to be a utility character, even a caller, is the same. the only difference is the allocation of the work. if you think monking is hard, im assuming you cant play any other professions very well.

Alazare · Oct 24, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

In all honesty, monking is not all that challenging, its just different. every character has to micromanage, monks just have to do it differently. the amount of work needed to be a monk and the amount of work needed to be a utility character, even a caller, is the same. the only difference is the allocation of the work. if you think monking is hard, im assuming you cant play any other professions very well.

And this coming from a Necromancer? Like, if something is easy, and I mean EASY to play its the necro. You cannot compare playing a necromancer and monk, to play a monk you need allot more finesse and reflexes. Please do not comment on proffessions you so OBVIOUSLY did NOT play.

@ Byron: Finally someone who knows what he is talking about and not jusst spamming the topic for his forum title.

richirich · Oct 24, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

well i have tried an rc prot before and i thought it was very difficult, i found myself trying to watch my own position, my teams position, the wards position, enemy warriors positions, trying to watch for important hexes being cast so i could remove them, as well as the party bar for conditions. i dont know whether i was supposed to watch for all those things or if i missed something but it was very very hard and i found it impossible to go a whole match without making at least one mistake.

on the flipside playing vim was quite easy though :P

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

uhhh did you just seriously that because i put down n/x on my profile you assume i only play a necro? man you are fuggin retarded!

i play everything, not only necros/ whatever. ive monked before, in fact i do it quite often. i don't enjoy it, but it realy isn't hard.

Alazare · Oct 24, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

uhhh did you just seriously that because i put down n/x on my profile you assume i only play a necro? man you are fuggin retarded!

i play everything, not only necros/ whatever. ive monked before, in fact i do it quite often. i don't enjoy it, but it realy isn't hard.

I assumed that is your favored and most played profession and on that note I assumed you do not know how to play a good monk. I was correct. Those few times you played a monk and lost at underworld does not give you the right to comment on the monk profession. Please do not call me retarded, if you cannot find a better argument do not resort to flaming. I will be forced to do the same.

hyro yamaguchi · Oct 24, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

That is laughable - I myself feel insulted. Monking is not simple; it's the hardest slot to play (with the possible exception of warrior caller) because it recieves the most hate and also has the most important responsibility, which is keeping the team alive. As a non-monk, you are 100% effective at 1 HP, and 0% effective at 0 HP.

Good monking takes keen reflexes, a broad battlefield awareness, and a heapload of experience. It is much more than babysitting the party screen, even in HA play. Play more monk and you will appreciate it.

Play more? More than my current 2-3 hours a day?

Why are you crying like I insulted monking, all I said was:
WoH/infuse is an easy to play build. And as I've stated before, I do not count "quick reflexes required" as hard. What is the definition of a reflex? I believe a reflex is a reaction that you do without thinking, right?
Again: brainless.

Did I say monks don't get flamed a lot? Well if not, I'll say it now:
As a PvP monk I've hardly had any comment on me, unless I was in fact doing a bad job. Only in PvE have I had loads of stupid crap over me.

Did I say a monk is generally easy to play? No I did not. I was talking about a single build. So read my posts, and don't put words in my mouth.

If I did not make myself clear: Yes a monk is generally hard to play, but a WoH/infuse monk is brainless healing/hex removal.

hyro yamaguchi · Oct 24, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

-edit-

triple post: Guru is acting weird.

hyro yamaguchi · Oct 24, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

-edit-

see post above.

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

i think the servers are a bit backed up, maybe just high traffic today.
anyway, im not insulting monking, im just saying that i think your ego may be a bit large if you really think that monking is all that difficult. yes its vital to any build, but so is everything else.
...necs are also not the easiest class to play. calling a necro an easy play is like calling a 605/55 tank a difficult task =p. i believe the word you were looking for is versatile. necros are easily the most versatile class that you can play.

@alazare: i just bothered to actually read what you wrote... uhhhh.. what the hell.... a) what are you talking about. and b) when did i say anything about not being a good monk... unless you have a clear misunderstanding of the english language, i do believe the post was "It's not a hard task, I just don't enjoy it". so yeah, not sure what crawled up your ass and died today, but... whoah, just read more of the trash you wrote... did you just honestly tell me that I dont have the right to comment on monking? uhhhhh... yeah... this conversation is done, you have officially labeled yourself an idiot.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 24, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

necros are verstatile, and easy to play.

I have almost religious-like reverence for good monks. having attempted to play the profession, it requires effective pre-protting for spikes, watching for when a spike is about to hit, managing energy, making sure teammates don't die to needless pressure deaths. Healing is a much easier line to play than prot, but you still have to be on the ball and heal the right target and the right time, and manage your energy. too often I've seen people die because the wrong person got woh'd, or they seed me even though I'm running far, far away from conflict and that seed could be better put elsewhere.

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

necros are verstatile, and easy to play.

and monks aren't? i dont see the big problem unless everyone that plays this game just SUCKS at multitasking. monking is in no way, shape, or form hard. its just not the same playstyle as the other characters. and last time i checked, different and difficult had two different definitions in the dictionary.

Alazare · Oct 24, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

@alazare: i just bothered to actually read what you wrote... uhhhh.. what the hell.... a) what are you talking about. and b) when did i say anything about not being a good monk... unless you have a clear misunderstanding of the english language, i do believe the post was "It's not a hard task, I just don't enjoy it". so yeah, not sure what crawled up your ass and died today, but... whoah, just read more of the trash you wrote... did you just honestly tell me that I dont have the right to comment on monking? uhhhhh... yeah... this conversation is done, you have officially labeled yourself an idiot.

a) if you knew anything about anything in HA you would know what I'm talking about
b) I'm quite sure you know nothing about monking based on your posts so far.
c) yes, you've read correctly. You do not have the right to comment on monking. If a person asks for help and advice on monking I think it is only fair he gets it from people who play a monk regularly in HA and know what they are talking about and not the likes of you who play the easiest profession there is.

d) Thank you for calling me an idiot, it just shows how mature you are and how well you can argue.

zwitterion · Oct 24, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

bitch-fights aside, this has been an incredibly useful thread for dudes like me trying to shape up as a good pvp monk so thanks.

my point with the infuse was simply that with all the effort the bad guys put into taking our monkey hps away from us, seems kinda counter productive to bring a skill that helps them along with the job. Yes obviously infusing someone when there's a dude running up to hit you with a big hammer isn't a brilliant use of the skill, but regardless it seems to me that in the cosy fights of HA, Dude With Hammer is never far away, and your 1-2 self heals don't always make up the hurt in time, what with everything else going on. Maybe these are only difficulties when playing disorganized pug teams and will disappear with attainment of the zen of monking or something..

(ps having to pay attention to party health and size party positions and enemy intentions and your energy all at the same time at GW's PvP pace IS frickin zen and easily the hardest strategy game I've played in a long time)

Bugeater · Oct 24, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

This class is easy to play. That class takes skill. Stop crying. You don't know anything. I'm not an idiot. Don't twist my words. You're so immature.

That's all really great monking advice for someone asking for help. Can I have my 30 seconds of life back?

Aejorii · Oct 24, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

The way I see things is.. everyone can be a monk, but not everyone can be a good monk. Crucifix is describing the average tombs "cause and effect" monk, where red bars go down, and you make them go back up. The mindless kind. Good monks can preplan and preprot for optimum damage mitigation. If one realizes that someone is going to be hit, then it comes down to reaction time (not reflex time!) of what to do. Synergy between players is the direct result of reaction and reaction time. Usually when you place two monks that have a comfortable feel of each other's abilities and timing, they become a very difficult team to beat.
I can use one example I had with another guildmate back when tombs was still 8v8. Back when blood spike was rampant, I would play WoH and my friend would do SB Infuse. By understanding my friend's infusion reaction time, and the spike speed of the blood necros, his infuse would go off the a quarter second before my WoH healed him. The direct result was that his health would always be near 90%, allowing him to double infuse to catch spikes and afterspikes with simple ease.
Average monks just take it in the ass when the damage comes and tries to repair it. Good monks (and support chars) can mitigate or cancel damage before it even happens.

People who have done visual prot or visual infuse know what I'm talking about.

Or maybe I'm just babbling.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 24, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Good monks don't need party windows, those are just a little extra thing to help them out a bit and to help them know exactly how much they need to heal.

Good monks preprot, watch positioning, notice caster raising arms or warriors converging, notice shadow steps, watch energy, keep tabs on others energy (specifically other monks), make notes of major opponent offensive threats, watch skill animations and casting animations, kite, top off health, and do many other millions of things that any PuG would take for granted.

Bad monks run from warriors and press buttons to make red bars go up.

crucifix · Oct 24, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Good monks don't need party windows, those are just a little extra thing to help them out a bit and to help them know exactly how much they need to heal.

Good monks preprot, watch positioning, notice caster raising arms or warriors converging, notice shadow steps, watch energy, keep tabs on others energy (specifically other monks), make notes of major opponent offensive threats, watch skill animations and casting animations, kite, top off health, and do many other millions of things that any PuG would take for granted.

Bad monks run from warriors and press buttons to make red bars go up.

now this is exactly what im talking about, what makes this hard? its micromanagement in a nutshell. and if you think keeping track of obvious things is difficult, then the game is too hard for you. its an easy task, you have one job and you do it. paying remote attention to whats going on in general is not a hard task. The only difficult part of monking does not come from playing the class and being aware. the difficulty in monking is paying attention to your fellow backline. that is where the challenge comes in. the backline orientation is communication skills, however, not playing the game in general. so, if you can not be retarded, and TALK, then for christ sake, monking is an easy task.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 24, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Good monking>bad players imo. Of course, if you have a lot of other competent players on your team that know how to spam blind, pre-kite, put pressure on proper targets, have a good strat caller, etc. then monking is a lot easier. not a walk in the park all the time because other good teams will have things to shut you down to kill things, but no one gives a crap about shutting down a necro, ever. They'll occasionally try to diversion your tainted, because that's all you're really good for.

All I'm saying is, In a pug I try to get monks I know, but I don't give a flying crap who the necro is.