Curse

Scizzors · Nov 21, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

My god i love this thread. Flaming, Arguing, Heroes Ascent, Gaile Gray, people making up words like "offtopicer" and oprah all in 1 thread

qvtkc · Nov 21, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorph

So you are alright with AI being an "area effect", but not a teammate. This seems like "chauvinism" to me. Also by your reasoning, if I told you to guard the Guild Lord and only use pindown and troll ungent, you would become an "area effect", though we know that you and [archer] can do more.

As for heroes only replacing low-skilled players, my view is of a merit based HA and that heroes serve as adequate replacements for humans that meet a low standard of playing ability and should be practicing. If these humans were displaced from these groups, they are not displaced from participating in other groups.

What a bunch of look-what-I-learned-in-debate-class bs you keep posting. Anyway, the main difference between heros and GvG npc:s is that heros are indeed replacing the humans. Back when people were running henchway, true, henchmen did replace the humans but henchway was never more than a minor gimmick like any other. Not at all like now when every other team is made up of 1 human 3 heros 2 henchmen.

You're right though that heros are used for replacing humans with a low standard of playing. Translation: Instead of newbies (who usually have low standards of playing) getting together with other newbies to form groups and actually learn something, you have one newbie and his heros + hench and that's it. In the newbie's team, the heros have replaced other newbies. And why?

Because it's too easy to form such a group. Getting a full party of newbies by shouting lfp is of course more work than just putting an ai party together - click, click, done. Not to mention that even though most veteran superpros of HA can very easily defeat such a team, it will still be a lot better than a team of all newbies. So of course newcomers will go heroway.

What does that lead to? Just like there was a lot of IWAY fame farmers who never learned to play anything but IWAY, there will be a lot of people with no friends in HA and who knows only how to play heroway. One human + bots can never regularly outperform a full human team. So in the extension, the quality of play will severely degrade. I don't mean that there will be more noob teams (there were always lots of those), I mean that there will be fewer and fewer really good teams.

And also, yes, it's about players vs other players. We can probably build robots that can outrun any human. Maybe not now but in say 10, 20 years? Imagine someone trying to field a soccer team made up of 11 robots and some guy with a remote control. Interesting idea, true. But now imagine that it not only works, it becomes the standard way of playing soccer. There would be public outrage about it. We wouldn't allow this anywhere else so why would it be ok here?

IMO heros in HA should be something like this: if a certain group simply can't get a certain player that the team needs, the leader should be able to add one or maybe even two heros, and customize their build(s). In essence, heros should replace henchmen, not humans.

(And no, [Archer] can't do more than he already does, he's scripted to do what he does. Therefore that is all he can do, just like someone who doesn't know Japanese can't speak Japanese. But that's beside the point since he's part of the environment, not a team member.)

Mental Leteci · Nov 21, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I never said you should, I just pointed out that it's far from impossible to interrupt a ghost.

Oh,trust me, it's not far at all if you're trying to do that with Blackout.

Scizzors · Nov 21, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

IMO heros in HA should be something like this: if a certain group simply can't get a certain player that the team needs, the leader should be able to add one or maybe even two heros, and customize their build(s). In essence, heros should replace henchmen, not humans.

Or even better... Heroes should be 'backups' in Heroes Ascent. For example say that your Mesmer err 7's after a match. The next map a Hero takes his place with the same build so that the unfortunate err 7 doesnt ruin your entire build. To prevent exploitation only one hero replacement is allowed during
a run but if u are unfortunate enough to suffer anymore d/c's the replacements will be henchmen. Good idea?

The Silver Star · Nov 21, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Well im hoping one day when you get an err7 (code7 now) you wil be able to log back on and into the previous game... hopefully oh if only this did happen

Mental Leteci · Nov 21, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

"Guys, I think I'm going to die. Let me log out then I'll log back in when they're on someone else."

or if you want it to remember your health and energy

You're dying from poison and you have 2hp left, infuser clicked infuse, but you disconnected so he wasted 10 energy and when you log back in you're probably going to die.

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 21, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Or log uit to get rid of that annoying DP.

qvtkc · Nov 21, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scizzors

Or even better... Heroes should be 'backups' in Heroes Ascent. For example say that your Mesmer err 7's after a match. The next map a Hero takes his place with the same build so that the unfortunate err 7 doesnt ruin your entire build. To prevent exploitation only one hero replacement is allowed during
a run but if u are unfortunate enough to suffer anymore d/c's the replacements will be henchmen. Good idea?

Good idea, but actually I think the amount of replacements could be unlimited because the things you need to do to run heroway would be too much: get a team of all humans, convince them to get the skills you want (, kick those who doesn't have these skills and find more people), and then get them all to leave at the right moment, would be too much. New players would simply make all human teams instead of going through all that. There would still be exploitation, but in much lesser scale. 2% of teams being heroway-through-exploit would be ok, 50% of teams being heroway-because-of-laziness (like it is now) is not ok.

A bigger problem is that a single err7 would probably ruin your build anyway since heros are too stupid to run anything but the most simple builds properly.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 21, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Oh,trust me, it's not far at all if you're trying to do that with Blackout.

Don't know what you mean by that

that it's impossible or not?
Anyway, PD is the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scizzors

Or even better... Heroes should be 'backups' in Heroes Ascent. For example say that your Mesmer err 7's after a match. The next map a Hero takes his place with the same build so that the unfortunate err 7 doesnt ruin your entire build. To prevent exploitation only one hero replacement is allowed during
a run but if u are unfortunate enough to suffer anymore d/c's the replacements will be henchmen. Good idea?

Yeah, Awesomesauce. Really.

Mental Leteci · Nov 21, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Don't know what you mean by that

that it's impossible or not?

Yes, by that I mean it's impossible. You can't blackout Ghostly.

Father Anansi · Nov 21, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I'd post something commenting on the complete divergence from topic;
but my only contribution thus far has been to suggest making HA into a dodgeball Tourni'. After careful consideration i've reconsidered this (changing HA to dodge ball), dodgeball would suck with Ai.

P.S. I tried blacking out and capture siging ghostly, they both don't work.

Cheers,

Crone

Alleji · Nov 21, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Anansi

P.S. I tried blacking out and capture siging ghostly, they both don't work.

You need to cap sig a BOSS Ghostly Hero, DURRRRR!

Those are level 32 and use crystal haze, impossible odds and call to the torment... they start attacking you after you hold halls 5 times, so make sure to bring a cap sig when you're playing a holding build...

er... oops, didn't mean to say that. It's planned for the next patch in December which will supposedly turn HoH into PvE completely.

Father Anansi · Nov 21, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

You need to cap sig a BOSS Ghostly Hero, DURRRRR!

Those are level 32 and use crystal haze, impossible odds and call to the torment... they start attacking you after you hold halls 5 times, so make sure to bring a cap sig when you're playing a holding build...

Thanks for the Tip! I'll Remember that the next time I win Halls 5 consecutive times with my Searing Flames Ai team!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

er... oops, didn't mean to say that. It's planned for the next patch in December which will supposedly turn HoH into PvE completely.

Why must you spoil the surprise?!

oh possible Spoiler here folks. Rumor has it after winning 5 consecutive times if you click on ghostly 100 times it opens a portal to a secret cow level; this only works with heroes however.

shardfenix · Nov 21, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scizzors

Lorph you never* cease to amaze me.

I'm surprised he could grasp all that math stuff that I didn't care to read.

I'm looking forward too 8v8 again Gaile, but the problem was not the small teams (ok it sort of was). The biggest problem is that paragons and dervish are too godly. Look at any random HoH match of three teams and I guarantee you will see at least 4 paragons and 2 dervish. On HoH matches with no searing flames in them, I see 6 paragons and 2-3 dervish. When an offensive class is literally 1/3 the metagame and 8 others exist, it's too good.

BTW the other 1/3 of the metagame is eles. Gee, I wonder why. [skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]

Legendary Shiz · Nov 22, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Anansi

I'd post something commenting on the complete divergence from topic;
but my only contribution thus far has been to suggest making HA into a dodgeball Tourni'. After careful consideration i've reconsidered this (changing HA to dodge ball), dodgeball would suck with Ai.

P.S. I tried blacking out and capture siging ghostly, they both don't work.

Cheers,

Crone

If the AI is as ridiculously good at dodgeball as they are at interupting and spamming SF, we'd all get /owned.

Unless we pull a [DeeR] and ball spike the comps. 3...2...1

Scizzors · Nov 22, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I'm looking forward too 8v8 again Gaile, but the problem was not the small teams (ok it sort of was).

Did i miss something? Sounds to me like ur sure off the return to 8v8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

The biggest problem is that paragons and dervish are too godly.

Iv heard about the parag0ns godlyness but whats this complaining about the dervish? I dunno about anyone else but i dont find them overpowered at all. Man shard did u do this when factions came out aswell?

Father Anansi · Nov 22, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

If the AI is as ridiculously good at dodgeball as they are at interupting and spamming SF, we'd all get /owned.

Unless we pull a [DeeR] and ball spike the comps. 3...2...1

Love the guild name by the way. Makes me wonder what the cape looks like.

NeHoMaR · Nov 22, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

"Guys, I think I'm going to die. Let me log out then I'll log back in when they're on someone else."

The "back to game" when err7 could be implemented. But not when you actually logout, or click the X, or hit Alt+F4, but when server really know that WAS an err7.

Note: I really hate to be a Offtopicer

JR · Nov 22, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

"Guys, I think I'm going to die. Let me log out then I'll log back in when they're on someone else."

or if you want it to remember your health and energy

You're dying from poison and you have 2hp left, infuser clicked infuse, but you disconnected so he wasted 10 energy and when you log back in you're probably going to die.

If the period whilst being disconnected were to simply treat you as if you were AFK (your character is still in the game, can die/be hexed/etc), then the only it could be abused is if someone found a way to abuse being AFK.

lursey · Nov 22, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If the period whilst being disconnected were to simply treat you as if you were AFK (your character is still in the game, can die/be hexed/etc), then the only it could be abused is if someone found a way to abuse being AFK.

how about we introduce some skills called "phrasing", where you can phrase in and phrase out of the game..but initially you have to be phrased in the group..

and also..

a limited side set skills..which you can change your 8 skills bar according to maps with your limited sideset you already picked before entering to the game, say 3 to 4 skills,