Curse

dr_jay · Nov 16, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I believe the best compromise would be to limit a team to a maximum of 2 heroes. This will enable unranked/low ranked players to still form teams while filling any holes in the build with heroes while simultaneously giving those players the opportunity to learn the necessary skills to be successful in all phases of PvP, not merely HA.

Lykan · Nov 16, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Every heroway thread turns into something about rank discrimination, this is our one chance to sort out heroway, lets try to keep this one on track or it will probably get locked.

This one here is about rank, go nuts

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10077285

Makkert · Nov 16, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

thanks for the info.

Julen · Nov 16, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Whatever you decide on doing, it cant get worse than it is now. So please give us something to get our hopes up at least a bit, and do it fast. As every day you wait, is a day lost and people will leave.

Nice of you to post here btw

Freibiersoeldner · Nov 16, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Plz remove the Heroes from every PvP Sektion!

If I want to fight AI I go PvE, cause there I´ll recieve drops from them

Alleji · Nov 16, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Personally, I'd remove heroes completely and keep the henches. Henchway (2 people + 4 henches) is a lot weaker than heroway and it was never a problem in terms of numbers, precisely because it wasn't a viable build, whereas heroway is. Bad heroway can farm other bad heroway on underworld. Good heroway can farm first three maps up to the relic run quite reliably simply because of the amount of bad heroway. (At least you get ganked on broken tower less than full teams!)

Simply not letting one player to go into HA alone would cut the number of hero teams significantly.

The second argument is the hero arena itself. I'm sure you have detailed statistics on how many people are playing it. Personally I don't even know how many districts there are, because I never even clicked on that map marker (just shows how much interest PvPers have about it), but I'm willing to bet it's not more than one. Why play the hero arena that doesn't give fame when you can play the hero arena that gives you fame? That's why heroes should be completely removed from HA.

And obviously, I'm 100% for bringing back 8v8. I'm getting my last bits of fame for rank 10 and then I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do much 6v6 even if heroes were removed... it's simply not as good.

Well, at least I know you're considering bringing back the old HA. I guess we can still hope.

Demo Something · Nov 16, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Remove heroes, they do not belong in HA, the arena is meant to be PvP and you should only get replacements when someone disconnects, or possibly fix reconnects.

Alleji · Nov 16, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freibiersoeldner

If I want to fight AI I go PvE, cause there I´ll recieve drops from them

Hm, excellent idea.

If you decide to keep the heroes, make Zhed Shadowhoof drop ecto.

tomcruisejr · Nov 16, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Personally, I'd remove heroes completely and keep the henches. Henchway (2 people + 4 henches) is a lot weaker than heroway and it was never a problem in terms of numbers, precisely because it wasn't a viable build, whereas heroway is..

this is like saying "I don't want to fight good players coz they always beat me. i just wanna farm rank 0 pvers and get fame easily".

Patccmoi · Nov 16, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

While I'd prefer to see Heroes totally out of PvP, except Hero arenas ofc. I mean seriously, how are Heroes fair at all for people not owning Nightfall? It's like giving infinitely better henchmen to people having this chapter, which is totally against chapter balance. For PvE it's not the same since you unlock Heroes IN Nightfall and there will be people in Tyria and Cantha not having heroes so you can group with them if you don't own it. Or there's always all the base hench for PvE that you can use while in PvP it's the same standard pretty bad 4 henchies.

If you really want to keep them, I'd limit AI (heroes/hench) to 2 per team so that you at least have a majority of players. Sometimes i was happy that AI was there still so we could throw a Mage hench in there when we were 5, wanted to play for fun and didn't care much. But allowing a majority of AI in PvP just defeat the whole point of PvP. PvP shouldn't be a battle simulation where each side decides the builds their team has and throw them fighting each other while only directing the AI (seriously that's the biggest role of the player most of the time. Some even go healing monk and let AI go loose on offense). PvP is DOING the battle, with everyone doing their part, being prone to mistakes under pressure, etc. Working as a team, winning/losing as a team. There is just none of that when your team is 5 AI that you direct by ctrl-shift-clicking them on targets. And it's the same for facing 5 AI + 1 player, it's not the same at all as facing other players. You take out a big aspect of the fight when the other side is just a bunch of AI that will react predictably (for good or bad) with absolutely ridiculous reflexes.

Father Anansi · Nov 16, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

lol i dont go to HA to play with heros i only end up having to use them since no one will accept me into a group because im un ranked cause im only R1 and u cant show that title so people instantly think i suck since i display no rank, granted im inexperienced at Ha but im not totally useless, i know what im doing. I like i said ive never fully herowayed on my own and nor do i intent to cause thats no fun i like playing with real people but they dont like playing with me since im unranked unless there pople i already know ie Guildies or friends. And as for what i said earlier im not complaining as such if thats what Anet thinks is right then its ok with me but i would just be nice to be able to compete rather than just having to stick to RA and TA etc. Its more fun to experience everything in GW rather than being shunned out because you have got a little title below your name.

First I'd like to respond to the above post. I understand the distress new players go through, as well as the responses from seasoned players new players have to endure, such as “I went through it, so why should it be any different for you?" For new players, finding an HA group is like a 13 year old competing with a community of ageing 70 year olds for a seat in an octogenarian club; its difficult if not impossible. If you, Sophitia Leafblade would like to seriously pursue PvP, PM me in game. For the rest of you, it’s as simple as joining one of the many PvP groups that spam recruit in the arenas.

Getting back to the thread, Gaile, I really appreciate the response. However, I am with the major PvP consensus when it comes to Heroes in HA; get rid of them. If Anet is unwilling to do this, a suggestion: Limit heroes to 2 and implement 8v8.

I’d also like to see more of an emphasis on taking halls as opposed to the current fame farming we have now. There have been posts on how to accomplish this.

Patccmoi · Nov 16, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Are you insane... do you realise how much fame people like me got on that event? if you did you would not want another one.. trust me... it just srews the rank system even more than it already is. No way shuld they ever do this again.

People need to stop worrying about 1 weekend screwing up the rank system. The rank system is being screwed since months one way or another, and 1 weekend will hardly change anything anymore.

Some people must've got easily 1k+ fame by now with nothing but them and heroes. If they put a double fame 8v8 event weekend the competition will likely be very high and with Song of Concentration now it might not be as easy to delay other teams hero caps long enough to hold well. Then again, Signet of Mystic Wrath and Paragons in general would likely make for some even more ridiculous holding builds.

Phoenix Ex · Nov 16, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Remove Heroes from HA, put fame into all other PvP mode other than random ones, solve HA rank problem at the same time.

l Batman l · Nov 16, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I vote completely removing heros from HA. The most fun I've had PvPing was before Nightfall 6v6 with the recently changed maps.

Defendpeace Necros · Nov 16, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

put it like this : remove heroes from Ha in general, but if someone from team gets err7, or a similar problem, guild wars should let you choose a replacement hero that instantly appears in your team when u choose him. and whatever hero u like.

Oren The Destroyer · Nov 16, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I dont care about heroes, i want to see the lag problem in relic runs gone

anasazi sen · Nov 16, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Honestly, I say keep the heroes. It's good for the new players that don't want to spend 2 hours finding a group only to have someone ragequit on the first loss. (And before anyone asks, I'm R7, so shush.) Heroes fill the niche role for higher ranked players that have maybe half an hour to kill before they have to go to work, class, pick up the kids, etc and don't have time to wait for everyone to setup and get on vent. Let's be honest here, heroes didn't kill HA, the switch from 8v8 did. And as much as people hated iway and vim, those teams were ridiculously easy to form and attracted the very type of person that didn't like waiting around for groups to form. These people now probably either quit HA altogether or heroway it. Point is limiting heroes would be a bandaid solution, HA would still suck in its current incarnation.

phasola · Nov 16, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

New people learn as much from heroway as they do from farming UW.
No heroes plx.

croc · Nov 16, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

No heroes please.

If new players refuse to expand their friend list, join pvp guilds, or start their own teams, then I'm sorry to say but you deserve to not get very far. Doing well at PvP is supposed to be difficult, thats what makes it such an achievement. Its the same with armour in pve, I don't complain that I dont have fow armour, as I appreciate the time other people have spent to get theirs and I dont expect it to be handed to me on a plater.

I know it can be real frustrating at the start, but it makes you appreciate it more. I remember how proud I was when I got my rank 3, I played every build under the sun to get it, and I think I learned heaps in the proccess as well. At the end of it I felt like I achieved something, I cant understand how people could be proud of using heroes, whats the point in that?

Ghost Recon · Nov 16, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

HA is totally messed with lower ranks been seen as "crap" removing hero's will just mean that these low rank players won't have any way to play. I have never lost to hero teams while playing with my guild only when with PuG's hero's aren't the problem at all the fact is there are loads of crap r6/9 players who just IWAY'ed there rank who think they should automatically win because of there rank then get annoyed when they lose too hero teams and complain for them to get removed.

Removing hero's won't solve much it will make the old HA player happy but the new one's won't both getting into it. If anything it should be limited to 2-3 hero's max and this will probably be what they will do to try and keep the new and old HA players happy.

I would prefer them to be removed but i just don't think it will happen. Maybe make a second mini HA for hero teams which gives fame but less also no price chest and make HA 8v8 again this would both mean the old HA players are happy and the new one's can get fame without getting flamed.