Curse

PaulOtt · Oct 25, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Hutto - I notice you don't seen to find any room for Debil Shot on those bars. This suprises me a bit, since it seems like an excellent skill for pressuring their team at the flagstand. Is this because you expect your ranger to be off in skirmish situations all the time and not able to reach their flagstand team much?

Don't get me wrong, I think Deb Shot is overpowered. But I want a build that can 1v1 just about any flag runner, is great against NPCs, and can provide a variety of pressure 8v8. Deb Shot doesn't really fit into that type of build as well as the skills I've got there, imo.

Remember when nobody ran decent flaggers and one decent Crip Shotter could royally screw up the other team when he got into their base? Now people run blind + snares and it really sucks. With some type of condition removal (antidote signet) you're back to forcing morale boosts by slowing the flagger (if not killing him outright) and making the other team change their formation.

Just an idea. I think it'll work.

Lews · Oct 25, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I liked cripshot runners =/

We should bring them back imo.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 25, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulOtt

Don't get me wrong, I think Deb Shot is overpowered. But I want a build that can 1v1 just about any flag runner, is great against NPCs, and can provide a variety of pressure 8v8. Deb Shot doesn't really fit into that type of build as well as the skills I've got there, imo.

Remember when nobody ran decent flaggers and one decent Crip Shotter could royally screw up the other team when he got into their base? Now people run blind + snares and it really sucks. With some type of condition removal (antidote signet) you're back to forcing morale boosts by slowing the flagger (if not killing him outright) and making the other team change their formation.

Just an idea. I think it'll work.

signet of malice is effin' SCARY. In fact, I don't know why they're not seen more often, because they can royally screw a blindbot. I honestly think that on many maps, one signet of malice sin messing with your runner can easily force morale. Crip shots are more versatile but easier to deal with in bases.

Signet of malice>antidote signet imo, and between ranger and sin survival skills, it's not like you're losing a ton by not running distortion.

Vexx007 · Oct 25, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

This may seem like a stupid question but what happened to Kindle+Poison Arrow Rangers?

Thom Bangalter · Oct 25, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx007

This may seem like a stupid question but what happened to Kindle+Poison Arrow Rangers?

they're farming fow for shards.

Zeldawind · Oct 25, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

they're farming fow for shards.

is that still worth it?? most of the time your busy around 40 minutes and only get 2 shards. Then even FoW spider run is worth it again

But kindle+poison arrow flag runner hmm never seen them really

.
But i started to GvG in december last year

so maybe thats to old for me

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 25, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Kindle + Poison Arrow flagrunners are great if your strategy revolves around the enemy laughing too hard to occasionally press the Heal Party key.

PaulOtt · Oct 25, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

signet of malice is effin' SCARY. In fact, I don't know why they're not seen more often, because they can royally screw a blindbot. I honestly think that on many maps, one signet of malice sin messing with your runner can easily force morale. Crip shots are more versatile but easier to deal with in bases.

Signet of malice>antidote signet imo, and between ranger and sin survival skills, it's not like you're losing a ton by not running distortion.

I don't know if you saw Te's game #4 from this weekend against SB (it isn't worth watching, we had henchies by that point), but I tried out the R/A. It is really good for certain situations like I pointed out, but in a 1v1 against a R/Me I got pwned. Distortion is just that good. I tried scrimming him 1v1 4-5 times after the match was over and although I think I did get better, the ability to avoid the interrupts on your cripple, apply, and unguent is absolutely necessary. Sure, you can cancel if he's at range and you see it coming, but my reflexes aren't fast enough when he's nearby. This is why I'd switch to Distortion + Antidote.

The whole idea is that you aren't horribly matched up against any 1 char on their team. You don't want to play a R/A and then they send a R/Me (a very common template) after you and you have to run away. Defeats the whole point of the char. Although, an Illusion Mes with Distortion and Ether Feast would be trouble. Hmm.

Medion · Oct 25, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I've run a R/A flagrunner for a few weeks now and it really works great I think. I don't use Troll Unguent like PaulOtt though, I use Shadow Refuge. May be a little bit less healing but it isn't as easily interupted. I also used Storm Chaser + Dark Escape for running instead of Shadow of Haste. With swapping headsets I'm able to get 27 out of 30 seconds of 25% speed boost.

I haven't fought a cripshot though, but I'd suggest using Shadow Refuge. That might make it a bit easier to fight. Illusion mesmers are always hard and to be honest I can't think of a single character that can handle them one on one. I have beaten one before though, but he was just crap

Also there are a lot of other variations to cripshot - I've taken hunter's shot, barbed trap, Blackout, Debilitating and other run skills on the last two 'free spots' of the cripshot (I consider apply/cripple, the two interupts, a self-heal like troll and either rez sig/running skill really needed to call it a cripshot

)

Patccmoi · Oct 25, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

When not interrupting, rangers can supplement an offense through some more damage, though they usually find themselves lacking in skillslots. Savage and Distracting are so good that you absolutely have to run them. Crip + Apply is your skirmish-winning combo and also applies more pressure than most other options. Distortion gives you immunity to death and makes you free to move around the battlefield. That leaves you with maybe 2 skills to choose from, and it doesn't help that most of the ranger damage skills are crap compared to their warrior counterparts.

In short, rangers are in a situation where their few good skills are far so ahead of everything else they could take that there are really very few choices. If you're not a Crip + Apply template, what are you going to do to apply pressure? You can Oath Shot-spam spirits and trap up the spirits if there's an effect you really want, or you can ignore pressure and go pure spike with Dual + Punishing man. Both have the problem of being less versatile than the Crip + Apply though, and you only bring them if there's some specific effect you really really want.

I agree that you're not as versatile if you don't pick Crip-Poison, but not all rangers have to be skirmishers. For example we used this setup in GvG and it worked great:

R/Me

12 Wild
12 Exp
12 Marks
3 Ill

Expel Hexes
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Kindle Arrows
Storm Chaser
Distortion
Rez Sig

It's meant as a mid-fight Ranger that is able to do running when required or go help with ganks. It's NOT a soloer, but not everyone in a team has to be. We used an Hydro/BFlash runner that had Healing Breeze, and if there was ganking him and the hydro could handle close to anything. Illusion Mesmer couldn't do much with Expel, assassin had to face BFlash and the Hydro snared while he 'nuked' them down, etc.

In fight, his damage is fine (+20 from kindle per shot stacks pretty fast), but ofc his advantage over a warrior remains disruption. He has Savage/DShot that he can nail on anything, and interrupting a BLight will hurt a monk as much as hitting for 150 damage (likely more if it's a dshot!). He can help if we're against hex pressure with Expel. And mostly he has the ability to strongly support a spike (since we did a 3 men spike with Evis-Exec and LOrb-LStrike it was quite important). But i still don't consider that as a 'spike' ranger, because it's much more than that.

It's still a very versatile fighter with interrupts, a spike, utility with expel, self-defense, running skill, decent base damage, etc. It's not as versatile as a Cripshot, but if you're not going for condition pressure the poison from cripshot often does less damage than what Mend Condition heals removing it, and if you have other snares in the team Crippling Shot isn't always that necessary. Having him with Expel also gave us more freedom in our monk builds.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 25, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

R/A with signet of malice>blind bot being sent back. If they're running a r/me I suppose you're screwed though. However, signet of malice is strong enough to gimp the blind bot that you could take out a good number of npcs. The thing about antidote signet is, it's a 2 second cast (so a very easy interrupt) but at least the recharge makes it interesting, since they basically have to double blind every 8 seconds and that gets expensive, even with the love of my life ether prodigy on my bar.

PaulOtt · Oct 25, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

R/A with signet of malice>blind bot being sent back. If they're running a r/me I suppose you're screwed though. However, signet of malice is strong enough to gimp the blind bot that you could take out a good number of npcs. The thing about antidote signet is, it's a 2 second cast (so a very easy interrupt) but at least the recharge makes it interesting, since they basically have to double blind every 8 seconds and that gets expensive, even with the love of my life ether prodigy on my bar.

As soon as you see the blind coming, go ahead and start the Antidote. This A) Lets you always keep him crippled and poisoned, B) Makes it impossible for him to interrupt with a Gale (assuming you start < .5 sec after he starts casting: .25+ to finish BFlash, .75 aftercast, 1.0 Gale = 2+ secs.). For other interrupts you have Distortion. The only thing you don't have protection from is Mesmer hard interrupts, and most of those have somewhat long recharges (and we've already mentioned that illusion mes is hard 1v1 for this char).

If he tries to cast anything other than blind while you're not blind, you can Conc it and then he's really screwed. 3 x casting speed on everything means you're not getting blind and he's Crippled, Poisoned, and Interrupted for 20+ secs.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 25, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

R/Me

12 Wild
12 Exp
12 Marks
3 Ill

Expel Hexes
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Kindle Arrows
Storm Chaser
Distortion
Rez Sig

<snip>

It's still a very versatile fighter...

Do you consider the rangers in a ranger spike build versatile? Because that's pretty much the same build.

No one's saying it's not possible to use those skills in ways other than a spike. Naturally you want to interrupt stuff between spikes and maybe needle a random target, but it's really not what you're bringing the character along for.

To put it another way - the main purpose of that character is to spike, and he's really not very good at anything else other than interrupt-spam. If you didn't want to spike, you'd bring completely different skillslots. By comparison, the Cripshot ranger is reasonably good at everything except spike.

scamPOR · Oct 26, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

With how skills are going, DAZEBOT.... lame but true.

Apple · Oct 26, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I've been having a look at the nightfall skill line and a Sandy Grip ranger might be pretty nice, especially on a split, to constantly blind and do more than throw in a lightning orb every so often

Timeless Logic · Oct 27, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

In that case, I'm glad I enjoy playing Crip/Apply alongside my buddy's Virulence Mesmer. My friend and I have begun a major recruiting effort for our new guild, and at the same time are discussing Nightfall's impact on our favorite classes. This thread and forum section have helped a great deal in terms of inspiration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Lately, I've been trying to hammer out a bar

Please tell me that's not a thumper joke...

Mr Fizzle · Nov 11, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Grenth's Grasp=New Crippling Shot ?
I think,but Grenth's Grasp is strippable since its a enchantment but It doesn't take too many extra attributes to make it a 5-6 second cripple.

Program Ftw · Nov 23, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Concussion Shot and Crippling Shot are your freinds!

Silk Weaver · Nov 26, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Natural Stride > Distortion

Natural Stride costs 2 energy, syenergizes with Apply Poison + Troll Unguent and doesn't reduce attribute spread, 33% speed buff 70% of time for escaping, flagrunning, or anti ganks.

Distortion costs 5 energy, and loses 2 per hit, 25% higher chance of evasion.

Compare. Which is better?

As for R/A, I'll make a thread on that I think.

Program Ftw · Nov 26, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Natural Stride > Distortion

Natural Stride costs 2 energy, syenergizes with Apply Poison + Troll Unguent and doesn't reduce attribute spread, 33% speed buff 70% of time for escaping, flagrunning, or anti ganks.

Distortion costs 5 energy, and loses 2 per hit, 25% higher chance of evasion.

Compare. Which is better?

As for R/A, I'll make a thread on that I think.

Distortion "would" be the better skill if it hadn't been nerfed.

Thanks,
Program~