Curse

sir lockt · Nov 23, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

2 thing on this topic:

Vocal minority

And to JR- comment: yes we are crazy...we run a paragon, but not a motivation. Incomming makes you immune for most spikes, watch yourself provides defensive support, the rest we use for spike support (adren spike, balanced team).

The comparison between motivation para and rit isnt that bad, only the paragon is much easier to shutdown, also the balanced teams we have encountered running a motivation setup often lack an offensive punch. Its again a "holder" build.

I believe the paragon does what it is intended to: replace monks to some extend. Its just a matter of time single monk teams pops up, supported by paragons you have a serious alternative imo. A full motivation specced para can keep a team alive for quite some time...

Kabale · Nov 23, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

I believe the paragon does what it is intended to: replace monks to some extend. Its just a matter of time single monk teams pops up, supported by paragons you have a serious alternative imo. A full motivation specced para can keep a team alive for quite some time...

There will always be two monks. A paragon may be able to keep up the health of a team, but not one person in a team.

Kabale · Nov 23, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

2 thing on this topic:

Vocal minority

Hardly worthwhile since pretty much all top teams are running Divert Hexes, or some other 'hardcore' hex remove due to all the Spoil Victor, Reaper's Mark stuff lying around. This thing doesn't last for longer then 3 seconds.

The problem is, you can't remove them. You can't even see when someone is affected by a shout. The usual skills that do extra damage to someone while they're enchanted, hexed,...there's no such thing for someone affected by a shout/chant!

I like the idea of something that will hurt someone when a shout/chant ends, but I believe it has to be something more than just a hex.

Roaring Winds

Shouts and Chants cost 3...6 more energy to cast. Whenever a Shout or Chant ends on a creature, that creature takes 10...40 damage.

Just another example, but not enough again because there'll just be some Mesmer with Spiritual Pain having a field day, but yea. Idk

The idea of already existing skills affecting skills affecting Shouts is a good one.

Divineshadows · Nov 28, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Increase watch yourself to 6-7 adren with a longer duration at 0 tactics.

Awesome idea. Doesn't really hurt the proper uses of the skill as increased adrenaline cost comes with a longer duration (which could even be viewed as a buff to proper users), but hurts its synergy with energizing finale.

Drewfense · Nov 28, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

This is a first! How do you complain that something is overpowered when it gives you the advantage or keeps you competitive?

It's not fun,because we get better defense than ever before?

A solid field commander in the midst of a solid team setting? That will definitely increase the efficeincy of your team. ANet has given you that.
As a battle field commander,you are the focal point of all commands,and motivate you followers/teammates to do all they can to succeed.

But,its overpowered? It's effective. It keeps your team in the fight. You will never be totally out of any battle with a solid commander on your team. Paragons fill that role. if it takes too long,that means that the Paragon is effective.If someone feels that a skill is overpowered, then don't use it until they fix it

. But, what if it never meets the nerf bat?

Then,you are the team that is out of the loop. Or is it that you don't want to get used to using a skill and becoming dependent on it, only to have it nerfed in its prime?

Enjoy the ride. You'll never know when It'll end!

I might get raged at for saying this. Losing to imbalanced skills sucks and often incites these threads, but in the end it is not why people dislike them. People dislike imbalanced skills because they are meta defining. To be competitive you must run a paragon or you must run a hex build just to eliminate the paragon advantage. This forces people to run a narrow range of builds and reduces a large deal of creativity and variety from the game. What people are asking for imo is not to nerf the paragon into oblivion, but to create realistic counters that can fit a larger range of builds.

The problem anet created is that they wont add new skills till chapter 4 so the only option is destroying the paragon. It is very similar to how the ritualist could not be realistically countered in GvG due to spirit mechanics. Rather than slightly changing the game mechanic, they altered the skills and consequentially obliterated defensive spirit spamming.

Patccmoi · Nov 28, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I think too much focus is being put on EF and motivation skills in general. The real problem is Leadership and Watch yourself. Watch yourself is free energy. Leadership will give you 4-6 energy per shout in most situations. Just about every shout is 5e or adrenaline.

Increase leadership to 1e per 3 ranks. Increase watch yourself to 6-7 adren with a longer duration at 0 tactics. Increase EF to 2 sec casting.

Incoming is great but I don't think its that's broken alone. The quickly ending shouts, chants, and leadership giving infinite energy to the paragon that is the problem.

I agree about the Leadership part. Paragons atm never lack energy for anything.

For WY! though, i think that's tweaking the wrong skill if you switch its adrenaline. Keep in mind that WY! is used but they can very easily switch that for GftE! and then the casters simply have to wand once to gain that energy. It would hardly change anything. Energizing Chorus is another really spammable one, though it's limited to 10s on casters not using shout/chants.

I think that WY! simply needs its damn range reduced to Nearby again. It would be much less usable to activate EF on tons of people at once, and mostly it would just be balanced. An unremovable buff giving +20AL to everyone in earshot that can be kept at all time is just not right. +20AL removes a DAMN lot of viable pressure option and leads to ridiculous positioning. You see even top teams having their Mesmers in your backline and their monks in your midline and they don't care at all because they all have as much armor as a warrior so they won't be spiked down easily. It's just stupid, WY! was always balanced at Nearby.

And yes, there will always be 2 monks, or 2 dedicated healers anyway (if Resto Rt get some nice spike heal to use without a spirit they could replace one). Paragon is nice party support, but what if the other team splits 4-4? You're going to have a monk only on 1 side? If you had only 1 monk and a Paragon, you would also need a lot of secondary heals on other and at this point you might wonder why you're not just running 2 monks.