Curse

Thom Bangalter · Nov 07, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

They did hold for an insane amount of time. However, it was during the dead hour. Watching the build in halls it was obvious how they were holding, however I have no idea how they got there, other than hall skips+heroway.

scamPOR · Nov 07, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Paragon's in general are a bit strong. Energizing finale definately needs some hate.

Alleji · Nov 07, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

Vocal Minority

Yep.

Yesterday when I logged on guildies told me Nine Inch Veils was holding for 3 hours straight. As soon as we got a full team we packed 2 copies of "STFU paragon" and went in. (I guess nobody else was smart enough to run some hate against holding team after they've been there for so long)

Someone else kicked veil out when we were fighting on sacred, but we still faced several of these builds. Without the paragons it crumbles in less than two minutes against a single pressure team, so if the third team in HoH isn't retarded (current metagame = yeah, right) the holding paragons should just explode.

Lord Mendes · Nov 07, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Without the paragons it crumbles in less than two minutes against a single pressure team, so if the third team in HoH isn't retarded (current metagame = yeah, right) the holding paragons should just explode.

Relying on the third team being "decent" is no longer an option.

oRROhr · Nov 07, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

[hex] didn't use 2 thumpers, just one with spirits (fertile was one) instead of pet. A guy called me n00b few days ago because I didn't bring my pet and oh, you see > 30 holds without it.

The other pj was a W/E with a staff and wards (stability and foes), so funny to see him. Dunno the rest of the build, he only spammed wards.

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 07, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

ya i faced [hex] yesterday it was a holding build. Anyway its a good build(talkin bout this not hex's) i was wondering for a while why i wasnt able to kill anything with my heroes (thumpers + orders) but then i realised the stand your ground + watch yourself is alot of protection on top of there rc and light of deliverance monks.

shardfenix · Nov 07, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Here's the 2 paragon 2 thumper 2 monk build:

2 thumpers
2 monks
2 paragons with adrenaline pumping, burning causing chants.

Make it up or watch observe.

Vindexus · Nov 07, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Pi's build was awesome. I saw it in action after [hex] got kicked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Here's the 2 paragon 2 thumper 2 monk build:

2 thumpers
2 monks
2 paragons with adrenaline pumping, burning causing chants.

Make it up or watch observe.

That's not a build.

projection · Nov 08, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Here is my build:
http://gwshack.us/f5db6

To beat the build flawless every time, bring 2 domination mesmers and shut down the monks. Don't shut down the paragons, this is a common misconception.
We easily held against teams with vocal minority, because the vocal minority is a 2 second cast, and if your thumpers are doing their job properly, not more than 1-2 during the entire match should get out. Preveil also is very good against it.

However, the monks themselves are very vulnerable to hexes. The thumpers are vulnerable to melee shutdown. The heal paragon can never keep up with the damage without the monks.

The reason the build became so popular is because there is a lot of heroway etc, and this build can easily tank two fire ele hero ways or fire ele teams.

Now, it is becoming even more popular, because everyone is running it, yet what they fail to see, is that if it is two teams with this build against a team with this build holding, they will never manage to capture the altar in HoH.

In my opinion, right now, to make quite a bit of fame the smartest thing is to run a rollover build with mesmers and recap in halls. Since all the teams will be cocky and try to cap at 3 minutes, because they think they are invincible.

There are a lot of flaws in this build, the people who held with this build were either holding in off-hours or were good. I played this with some friends, people from my guild... It's not only the build, it's also the players, don't forget that please.

Anyhow, this is just my little opinion on the subject.

Oh and, by the way...

Quote:

Fixed a bug that allowed the skills “Rampage as One” and “Strike as One” to activate without a living pet.

GG

God Apprentice · Nov 08, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Yeah these last 2 nights they were holding around 2 am EST-6 am EST somewhere in that general time

KitsunE81 · Nov 08, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

This build is extremely easy and so highly defensive, I played it yesterday, went in and held for I dunno how many times, they just couldn't kill us, we would just stand there and spam skills, unfortunately we got kicked out because HA got bugged or something and we all decided to go to bed...

oRROhr · Nov 08, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Rampage is still not fixed even if the update says so. Others like Run As One doesnt need pet either. Heal as One do require pet.

About skills against paragons, this ranger spirit looks nice: [skill]Roaring Winds[/skill]

Razz L Dazzle · Nov 08, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by projection

Here is my build:
http://gwshack.us/f5db6

To beat the build flawless every time, bring 2 domination mesmers and shut down the monks. Don't shut down the paragons, this is a common misconception.
We easily held against teams with vocal minority, because the vocal minority is a 2 second cast, and if your thumpers are doing their job properly, not more than 1-2 during the entire match should get out. Preveil also is very good against it.

However, the monks themselves are very vulnerable to hexes. The thumpers are vulnerable to melee shutdown. The heal paragon can never keep up with the damage without the monks.

According to your build you have one hex removal making Vocal minority very effective which is a 1 second cast by the way. You're assuming NR is up and or Veil, any decent team uses Gale or interrupt. Of course i'm assuming 'decent' team.

To counter this in current metagame add a Reaper's mark nerco with vocal minority. This build does nice degen, shutsdown paragons and works quite nice since most teams are light on hex removal in HA. Really any nice hex build should prove effective verse Heroes and current holding builds. Pressure this build at around 3 minutes remaining hex, degen and they'll be less effective. Most teams fail because they wait until 2 minutes which isn't enough time to effectively pressure and cap unless your team is better than most.

'Gratz on the fame from this build, i'd hope to see some player adaptation to current FOTM's to at least make HA seem less dull.

projection · Nov 08, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Hex Degen or SB/RI spike rolls this build over.

Very few teams run that though, since it can't hold.

Bread Fan · Nov 08, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Sierra thing is with your "counter build" you can't even get to halls which was proven when you faced us last night on relic run. And oh yeah I still think it is funny how you say it's "your" build when others were doing it couple nights before you had your 1700+ fame run. Swapping out 2 or 3 skills...

Dreikki · Nov 08, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I saw Sign of Blood [Sign] using this build last night. They held halls for 8 rounds, then I went to bed.

Yeah, I know. They're Finnish (h).

Messner · Nov 08, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I think a lot of you are misunderstanding the power of vocal minority in that it sticks. It's like running spiteful as the only hex in a build, it's pulled instantly. In an overload build though and with some common sense hexing vocal won't be coming off. You can get the whole team @ 10 hex degen + 2 warriors worth of pressure in about 30-40 seconds. Once the paragons are shut down the only thing keeping the team up is the nooby elite "I Can't Think Of An Original Monk Bar So I Copy Forums" i mean, Light of Deliverance (Don't get me started on Mantra of Flame....wtf do you have this for in a build that relies on channeling which lets you sit in 60base+10enchanted(in this case stance :/)+20watchyourself+24standyourground+8shield, maybe it's for the brilliant team strategy when you fight 2 pve teams so you dont have to use channeling and can just spam light of noob for 3 minutes as SF and MS rain down on you) which is pretty much garbage except through QZ in which case it's the only thing keeping up paragonway thru the pressure. But you know what else pwns thru QZ? DBlow, camp 1 warrior on the LOD guy if you have to and GG paragonway crumbles in <2 minutes. My personal favorite is when they put up fertile and we all start laughing and I call a wand spike on target monk at half health from idiot team as one of our warriors kills fertile on cue which results only in more laughter.

Side note about the 2 dom mes counter on the monks. If you're a monk holding in that build and you can't keep your energy up thru a wracker or shame/diversion mes with energizing finale and a hiding set then just wow.

WRT the holds/fame maybe someday you'll get to hold in PvP instead of PvE

pigdestroyer · Nov 08, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

I think a lot of you are misunderstanding the power of vocal minority in that it sticks. It's like running spiteful as the only hex in a build, it's pulled instantly. In an overload build though and with some common sense hexing vocal won't be coming off. You can get the whole team @ 10 hex degen + 2 warriors worth of pressure in about 30-40 seconds. Once the paragons are shut down the only thing keeping the team up is the nooby elite "I Can't Think Of An Original Monk Bar So I Copy Forums" i mean, Light of Deliverance (Don't get me started on Mantra of Flame....wtf do you have this for in a build that relies on channeling which lets you sit in 60base+10enchanted(in this case stance :/)+20watchyourself+24standyourground+8shield, maybe it's for the brilliant team strategy when you fight 2 pve teams so you dont have to use channeling and can just spam light of noob for 3 minutes as SF and MS rain down on you) which is pretty much garbage except through QZ in which case it's the only thing keeping up paragonway thru the pressure. But you know what else pwns thru QZ? DBlow, camp 1 warrior on the LOD guy if you have to and GG paragonway crumbles in <2 minutes. My personal favorite is when they put up fertile and we all start laughing and I call a wand spike on target monk at half health from idiot team as one of our warriors kills fertile on cue which results only in more laughter.

Side note about the 2 dom mes counter on the monks. If you're a monk holding in that build and you can't keep your energy up thru a wracker or shame/diversion mes with energizing finale and a hiding set then just wow.

WRT the holds/fame maybe someday you'll get to hold in PvP instead of PvE

can you post that again in english please?

NeHoMaR · Nov 08, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Yeah, Vocal Minority plus Spiteful Spirit totally destroy this build. Anyway, the build could be modded for more hex removal.

Thanks to projection for posting the build, that was the original purpose of this thread.

Julen · Nov 09, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Vocal minority, spitefull spirit and well of silence certainly help to beat teams like this.

The only problem in halls is that you cant rely on the third team anymore to apply some pressure, and even with a curse nec on the paragons (who will most likely get the two thumpers on him and therefore be on his arse 80% of the time) you still gotta have some luck to be able to kill em within 4 minutes.

So i wouldnt mind if they'd nerf this stuff as it gets annoyin to get to halls 5 friggin times facing the same holding team with the third team being a clueless heroway.